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Thread: Hero Races

  1. #11
    Basic Member 1337_n00b's Avatar
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    I would still hesitate to call Warlock an orc. He is human - only quite deformed. His eyes are blank yellow, his face is creepy, but he's human.

    In fact, i just have to disagree with the whole posts. My opinion is that there is a HUMPLOAD of races in Dota 2, and the only actual groupings would be the Tinker-Sniper-Clockwerk trio and Huskar with Dazzle. Everyone else can be just... Anything. For instance, the humans, they may be from different races or nations. We'll likely never know. Creating a list like this in an universe like Dota 2's is almost useless.

  2. #12
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    How is it useless? He's trying to categorize and only speculates, as soon as new proof has been given he can easily update it.

  3. #13
    Basic Member GIROG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1337_n00b View Post
    I would still hesitate to call Warlock an orc. He is human - only quite deformed. His eyes are blank yellow, his face is creepy, but he's human.

    In fact, i just have to disagree with the whole posts. My opinion is that there is a HUMPLOAD of races in Dota 2, and the only actual groupings would be the Tinker-Sniper-Clockwerk trio and Huskar with Dazzle. Everyone else can be just... Anything. For instance, the humans, they may be from different races or nations. We'll likely never know. Creating a list like this in an universe like Dota 2's is almost useless.

    I actually more feel Warlock is Half-Orc, but I think his facial features are so close to Axe's and so dissimilar to the regular Humans' that he's at least partially the same race as Axe.


    I'm more doing this out of fun than actually trying to make scientific science. And if Team Fortress 2, Portal and Left 4 Dead are taken into consideration, I think it's more than likely that the folks at Valve will expand upon the lore significantly. Might as well try to make sense of what we've been given in a place where we're supposed to discuss what we've been given.


    And right now I'm trying to make sense of why Invoker is (currently) the only Elf.




    In regards to the Gnome/Dwarf thing for Tinker/Sniper/Clockwerk, it can really go either way. There's so little evidence for a decision that they can be either; maybe they're something completely different.
    Last edited by GIROG; 12-20-2011 at 03:32 PM.

  4. #14
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    Check it

    His ears seem slightly pointy and his eyes glow, but neither that nor his story implies hes actually an Elf. I would rather think hes just a human who became more than a human.

  5. #15
    Basic Member GIROG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal View Post
    Check it

    His ears seem slightly pointy and his eyes glow, but neither that nor his story implies hes actually an Elf. I would rather think hes just a human who became more than a human.
    I'm getting my ideas together to post my theory on that. It's a bit far-fetched, but so is everything else in this thread.

  6. #16
    Basic Member GIROG's Avatar
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    Remember when I said I'd disregard altered Heroes? I'm bringing them back.

    As I said in my original post, and as Coal mentioned, Invoker has pointed ears. That basically throws what I've said about the lack of Elves out the window.

    But if there are Elves in the Dota universe, why didn't Drow keep her ears? Hopefully, I can explain that.

    (I'd like to note that this theory totally hinges on the idea that the ears of Necrolyte, Prophet and Lich remained largely unchanged through their respective transformations.)



    If you include the Altered Heroes with the unaltered ones, you can see some patterns. Let me go ahead and list the Altered Heroes that originated as mortal Humanoids:

    Pudge
    Storm Spirit
    Lion
    Pugna
    Ostarion
    N'aix
    Lich
    Necrolyte
    Death Prophet


    For most of these, you can sort of guess as to their races before their death. Pudge was definitely a Human, as was Storm Spirit. Lion may have been a Human or an Orc, but it's hard to tell. Judging by Pugna's horns and size, he was a Satyr. Ostarion is just a skeleton, so it's impossible to tell for him. N'aix may have been a Trowle.

    The last three are where things get interesting.




    They all have three things in common: They're undead, they're ancient, and they have pointed ears. One could just dismiss this as a product of their transformation, saying that their ear cartilage would have changed. But that doesn't really hold up. Here's my explanation:



    First off, Necrolyte. In life, he was a greedy cardinal. He would use fear of the afterlife to get money and favors from his subjects. While this was going on, a plague was ravaging the countryside, killing all that it touched. After the plague largely abated, Necrolyte was sentenced to death from the same plague that he exploited to scare his congregation. But he was immune, and the plague empowered him. When he escaped the quarantine, he went out to spread death and decay to the world. The length of his imprisonment wasn't specified, but judging by his appearance and the fact that people don't willingly open doors that lead to halls filled with a deadly disease, it's safe to assume that Necrolyte was in there for a very long time.

    As his skin and face shape were altered, one would assume that his pointed ears are a result of his transformation, as well. Except for the fact that the green skin and the destroyed nose can be explained by rot, while ears that have actually grown cannot. Therefore, it's safe to assume that he was an Elf before his transformation.


    Next, Death Prophet. Her story says that she's died over and over and over and over again for... Well, for a long time. We can assume that she's been doing it for centuries. And since her facial features seem intact, we can assume that she was an Elf in life.


    Lich may be the oldest of the three, as he was dropped into that not-so-bottomless pit for so long that his infamous acts were totally forgotten. Like Necrolyte, most of the flesh on his face has rotted off. Except for those damn pointed ears. Once again, we can assume that he was an Elf in life.


    All of this brings us back to Invoker. His lore says that he, too, has a magically lengthened life. He seems mostly unaltered, and his ears are pointed.


    From all that's been discussed, we can glean two main ideas:

    1) The Elf Heroes are all incredibly old.
    2) The Elf Heroes are all incredibly powerful, lore-wise.



    So, why aren't there any young Elf heroes? First, we have to assume that these Elves live normal-length lives- not like the OLOLO IMMORTAL Elves in Tolkien or Warcraft. Here are my theories:

    Theory #1:
    Necrolyte and the plague killed them all. One can assume that when he was released, his first victims were the descendants of his captors. Whatever Elves survived the first plague were killed by Necrolyte's new plague.

    Theory #2:
    Evolution. The millenia changed them into the races we see in the modern game.

    Theory #3:




    I may have to explain Theory #3 just a bit. We all know how much of a player Zeus is. Hell, the whole reason he's in this conflict is because his wife got mad at him for having so many affairs with mortals. With that many kids, it would be extremely plausible that he had a few illegitimate children. As you can see, Zeus's ears are very long and very pointed. That, along with crazy power, may have become a trait that was passed through the generations. It may also explain why people turned to the Nemesis Stones for mana: remnants of Zeus's mighty seed grew weaker and weaker, along with the pointed ears and the superpowers. Zeus treats all the Heroes as if they are his rambunctious, rebellious children. If this theory is true, then that statement just gained a lot of weight.


    But if Theory #2 is true, then Theory #3 would no longer be needed: Zeus may have taken the form of a mortal way back in time when long ears were the norm, and Elves populated the world of Dota.







    But those are just my ideas on the subject.

  7. #17
    Basic Member 1337_n00b's Avatar
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    Allow me to collaborate for a sec.
    But if there are Elves in the Dota universe, why didn't Drow keep her ears? Hopefully, I can explain that
    There are elves in Dota 2 universe. Boots of Elvenskin. But Traxex... She's a human, i think - only raised by the likely subterranian Drow.
    Pudge was definitely a Human
    His story implies that he was, likely, again, created. Somebody created The Butcher out of corpses of many, many creatures of different races.
    Lion may have been a Human or an Orc, but it's hard to tell
    I'd stick with Human. He is not tall enough to match Warlock(if we consider him an orc or a half-orc) and Axe, while the humans' height may vary.
    Judging by Pugna's horns and size, he was a Satyr
    It's, again, strongly implied that he didn't have those horns originally. It describes his childhood; in-game he's already a skeleton. But, when you think about it, Satyr actually makes sense.
    The Elf Theory
    Suddenly makes a huckton of sense. While they don't have to be literally called Elves, this idea actually sounds extremely fitting.
    The Zeus Theory
    Is, as for me, unlikely. That's simply by listening to his lines. He just keeps bragging about his state. I think he'd reference something like that. Of course, his backstory may be changed, the entire lore cna be changed, buuuut i doubt that Valve would re-record everything.

    And, looking at how we do have Gondar's portrait, it's safe to say that there's one more race out there. He doesn't fit into any of the ones that already exist.

    By the way, i wouldn't rely to Alchemist's Goblin's Greed. That skill name is very, very likely to change. Dota 2 doesn't have a lot of race references, and Valve did rename a couple of skills. I think it's safe to say that Goblin's Greed is changing the name quite soon. Razzil looks like the Gnome Trio a lot. A big damn lot.

    Witch Doctor isn't likely to be a Dezun troll - he looks nothing like those. He's deformed like ohmygosh. We have no idea of what he looked like in the beginning.

    The last thing i want to say, Sniper and Clockwerk both have long ears(judging by Clockwerk's helmet). Tinker's are likely covered by his headwear, and Alchemist... Well, my theory kind of cracks here - his ears are different.

  8. #18
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    Skywraths are not outlanders, at least i cant find anything about that in the lore. Shes just a Spirit thing cause of her backstory. Skywrath would be her original race.

    Imo too much of the OP is based on assumption...

    as for the elves, dispite the fact that we dont know if the trow are related to the elves in any way, id like to see them extinct. With only some Undead Heroes or extremeley old ones beeing of that Race.
    I am also very fond of the absens of Dwarves and Goblins (even if some person might disagree with me here)
    I realy hope Valve gives it its own spin, or for example keep elves closer to the myth (in other words small mischievous things that stir up trouble and steal human children)
    Last edited by Zordak; 12-21-2011 at 05:02 AM.

  9. #19
    Basic Member thyL's Avatar
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    First of all: Nice work, you're doing here, GIROG.

    I've got a few points where I'd like the lore to be somewhat like you said. The Warlock case is one of them. It would be kind of cool, if he was a half-orc -a bit like Beastmaster was 50:50 in Dota1 aswell.
    What really made me post this is another thing though, the Elven (or Elf-) theory. It would be more than awesome if the Elves would be long forgotten, because long gone peoples. Therefore the theory of e.g. Necrolyte would perfectly fit. Vengeance killed most of the Elves, other conflicts and wars took their part. Only a few might have lived through this, one of them Invoker (although I don't really see him having elvish ears). Actually it shouldn't be of any surprise that Invoker still lives... he's one of the mightiest wizards wandering DOTA2s world and he's got bigger brains and is smarter than everyone else.
    Apart from some Undead souls (like you mentioned with Krob and Lich) there might still be elvish creatures in the world. But they degenerated, mutated, were experimented on -I guess you see the reference in here - and so other races evolved, like the one Gondar belongs to.

    Actually I'm kind of sad that the Bounty Hunter and the Dark Seer aren't in one race, I'd love to see them be a race that evolved from corrupt and dark magic using elves or something.

  10. #20
    Volunteer Moderator Hefaistus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIROG View Post
    Then, we have Alchemist--not the ogre, the little dude on top. Razzil. He was one of the easiest to classify. From his name and spells, we know that Razzil Darkbrew has stayed a Goblin.

    Character lore has already done the first real grouping. Tinker, Sniper and Clockwerk are all... Something? In the original Dota, Clockwerk and Tinker were both Goblins. But judging by their appearances when compared to Alchemist, we know that they've changed. This is confirmed by pulling in Sniper, who used to be a Dwarf. But their proportions don't mesh with common depictions of Dwarves. It's a bit of a guess, but I believe they're Gnomes. The description in Ring of Regen shows that Gnomes exist in this universe, and have some sort of culture. The description in the ring suggests Gnomes are superstitious, and the backstories for Sniper and Tinker show that their race fits this profile.
    When I read Tinker's lore, I am tempted to say the complete opposite. Tinker is not superstitious at all. Heck, I very much doubt he even believes in coincidence. He fiercely believes in rational methodologies, there is no room for superstition in there.
    I am also quite tempted to say that Alchemist is of the same race as Clockwerk, Sniper and Tinker. If you look closely at the models, you'll notice that only Sniper is the bulky one. Tinker and Clockwerk only appear bulky due to the contraptions and armor they are wearing, but they are actually quite thin as well. If anything, it's Sniper that is the odd one out, not Alchemist.

    Quote Originally Posted by GIROG View Post
    Theory #3:




    I may have to explain Theory #3 just a bit. We all know how much of a player Zeus is. Hell, the whole reason he's in this conflict is because his wife got mad at him for having so many affairs with mortals. With that many kids, it would be extremely plausible that he had a few illegitimate children. As you can see, Zeus's ears are very long and very pointed. That, along with crazy power, may have become a trait that was passed through the generations. It may also explain why people turned to the Nemesis Stones for mana: remnants of Zeus's mighty seed grew weaker and weaker, along with the pointed ears and the superpowers. Zeus treats all the Heroes as if they are his rambunctious, rebellious children. If this theory is true, then that statement just gained a lot of weight.
    "Zeus was yanked over into this conflict". That suggests he hadn't been in the Dota 2 world before and since it seems likely that Invoker, if he were an Elf, was around before the conflict started, then that pretty much throws your theory out of the window.
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