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Thread: Even unfair bots are too easy

  1. #1
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    Even unfair bots are too easy

    Back when I used to play vs AI in Dota ("insane" setting) I would only win around 60% of the games i played. on a typical 2vs2 lane, when playing with my friend, bots would reach level 6 around the time we reached level 4 and the team pushes during midgame were practically unstoppable. In Dota2 I feel like I'm winning 90% of my games, and the only ones I lose is when facing sniper. Bots are far more predictable, and they gain too little extra exp and gold to compensate for their lack in skill.

    Would it be possible to make the "unfair" difficulty even more unfair? Perhaps up the bonus gain from 25% to 50%?

    Thanks

    zoz

  2. #2
    Basic Member Florin's Avatar
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    I would say 100%, as I wrote in previous posts, the current unfair difficulty means its unfair to them ) they are pwned, owned etc. They need a boost in AI, for me they are a little dumb.

  3. #3
    Basic Member TheWilder's Avatar
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    On one hand the AI is stupid yes, but the AI that is in your team is even worse, often the enemy team groups up and pushes mid while your team lets you defend 1v5
    Quote Originally Posted by vladhood View Post
    boy im glad all these qualified and educated game designers have come to the forums to help dota 2 grow

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    Because bots are add-on features to the game, not essential feature. The developers are more focused on fixing bugs, implementing new heroes. And the AI will need to be modified every single time there is a new hero released to accommodate the changes, thus it is more viable to finish most of the heroes first then focus on the AI. But I do recommend releasing some kind of tool for people to modify the AI, it provides more versatility and challenge (outsourcing public input just like an open source project).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkit View Post
    Because bots are add-on features to the game, not essential feature. The developers are more focused on fixing bugs, implementing new heroes. And the AI will need to be modified every single time there is a new hero released to accommodate the changes, thus it is more viable to finish most of the heroes first then focus on the AI. But I do recommend releasing some kind of tool for people to modify the AI, it provides more versatility and challenge (outsourcing public input just like an open source project).
    Sounds like a great idea. The people behind the dota1 AI maps really knew what they were doing! (I'm not saying that the dota2 team does not but, as you point out, they need to focus on a lot of other stuff)

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by zozkA View Post
    The people behind the dota1 AI maps
    If we want new players to actually learn something playing with bots, we need those who have been doing this for DotA. If Valve can provide a stable environment for PBMN and his team, to focus on the AI, and do not have to concern about other jobs. They can do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkit View Post
    Because bots are add-on features to the game, not essential feature. The developers are more focused on fixing bugs, implementing new heroes. And the AI will need to be modified every single time there is a new hero released to accommodate the changes, thus it is more viable to finish most of the heroes first then focus on the AI. But I do recommend releasing some kind of tool for people to modify the AI, it provides more versatility and challenge (outsourcing public input just like an open source project).
    I disagree with the idea that its an "add-on" feature. Or more to the point, if that's how its seen, I think that's a mistake. We all know how acerbic the community can get, bot matches are the BEST way for new players to get used to heroes in a comfortable, low-pressure, environment. Given Valves focus on lessening the learning curve, bots are a vital first step.

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    You aren't teaching players how to handle real battles if the AI don't combo much, goes around in circles, doesn't defend properly, stuck in a small radius moving slowly in a pack of 5 heroes. It is much engaging if good players can program bots to a certain difficulty to give new players an idea of how it is really played.

    Imagine you are playing on insane difficulty, winning all the games. As a new player, you are now extremely confident that you can win using the same strategy, just farming till late game without deny nor ganking. Now when you come to matchmaking, you will lose terribly without even knowing why.

    Plus allowing programmable AI, allows Valve to unlock something no other AOS games have done. (If you don't know what is AOS, go wiki about it, dota wasn't original, it was an idea that originated from a Starcraft Map called Aeon of Strife based on Starcraft's Lore)
    Valve can allow AI battles, imagine you have had your fun kicking people's ass in game. Now you can be a "Team Manager". You control how Bots think, you send a team of 5 bots against another team of 5 bots that is programmed by other players. Ain't it awesome just the thought of it?

    Advantages:
    More versatility in bots thinking
    Allows more Challenge
    Can focus on other aspect of the game in development
    AI battles (epic)

    Disadvantages:
    More programming
    Implementing scripting language
    Release of tool for players to script
    Hard to control the release of AI scripts

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    I'd like them to fix the AI before deciding to enact a grand new avenue of programming.

  10. #10
    Basic Member squinte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkit View Post
    You aren't teaching players how to handle real battles if the AI don't combo much, goes around in circles, doesn't defend properly, stuck in a small radius moving slowly in a pack of 5 heroes. It is much engaging if good players can program bots to a certain difficulty to give new players an idea of how it is really played.
    You sure you're playing on Unfair bots? I've been playing them for a while a now and can legitimately say that, one wrong move around the enemy team and you're perma stunned to death by an unrelentless combo. The only way to avoid this sort of combo is to get a BKB as soon as you can. The enemy bots roam together while your team tries, but fails to.

    I still think part of the problem is a team of 1 human & 4 bots is handicapped versus a team of 5 bots because the enemy team knows exactly what they're planning while you're more or less puzzled by your own bots decisions. Don't get me wrong, I win a lot of unfair bot matches, it's just frustrating to get caught out by a roaming team when your bots are so spread out. Bots won't push a lane with you unless you reach a specific threshold into enemy territory or ping on the tower you want to push to. And for whatever reason, they still don't like to defend all the time.

    Last night I was playing an unfair match and pinged to defend top T2 tower against a pushing team of 5. My bots all TP in. The enemy team backs off into the fog of war and my team disbands the tower defense. They're in mid and radiant jungle now when suddenly the enemy team, all five of them, re-enter from the fog of war with another creep wave. Despite me pinging on the tower my team doesn't come back because they wasted their TPs the first time and are too stupid to realize the enemy might have still been lingering around. What should have happened is the defenders should have pushed the lane out a bit to prevent the enemy team from just rushing back in 30 seconds later. They would have noticed the other team hanging around. Another thing they could have done is set up wards around the secret shop to prevent any kind of sneak attack. They place too much reliance on warding the runes 100% of the time.
    This ain't ova.

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