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Thread: Dota 2 Lore Megathread

  1. #521
    I'm not sure how we're warping anything? Finding out how lines are connected to lore, whether they're actually deeper than just simple banter between foes/allies, means deriving the context in which they're spoken. Oglodi are a close-knit race (similar to the Keen). They call each other cousins, kin; they consider one another family. Axe's line, "Axe knows you not, fiend", is basically him calling Lion a stranger. What kind of context can you fit there that isn't him refusing to recognize Lion as a part of the 'family'?

    Also, you're taking the word "unrecognizable" too seriously. I could go even further and say that, if he was unrecognizable, we wouldn't be able to recognize him at all as even being vaguely humanoid in shape. Not even as a formless blob, since you could still "recognize" it. He'd have to be some sort of Lovecraftian monster that would make you go crazy from how impossible he looked for him to be unrecognizable.

    Anyway, without making jokes, Lion doesn't even need to be "recognized" in the way you said since he's famous. As a fallen "hero", everyone would know who he was, especially the Oglodi who seem to pride their kin for their accomplishments.

    Quote Originally Posted by LinoPaladino View Post
    I don't get the point you talking about the Red Mist army.
    Axe was part of the Red Mist army. He has just received a Bloodmist army set. The Bloodmist army is a replacement for the Red Mist army that rose up after the latter group's disbandment (unless you count Axe as a one-man army).
    Last edited by The_Codfish; 08-03-2012 at 06:54 AM.

  2. #522
    Basic Member LinoPaladino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hefaistus View Post
    It doesn't. But people are so convinced that Lion is an Oglodi, they will warp anything they find to make it fit their views.

    I would like to point this out from Lion's lore:
    Lion was transfigured by the process, his body transformed into something unrecognizable.
    If you recognize Lion as an Oglodi, then that, perhaps, makes it even more unlikely for him to have been an Oglodi?
    But there's something behind the new response line of Axe.

    Transfigured: Now he has horns, sharp teeth, weird feet, and a hand of a demon.


    Quote Originally Posted by The_Codfish
    Axe had a Red Mist army item set. He has just received a Bloodmist army set. The Bloodmist army is a replacement for the Red Mist army that rose up after the latter group's disbandment (unless you count Axe as a one-man army).
    Oh, now I got it.

    But one thing bothers me. If the Set was made by a fan, who gave the story to it?


    "With the Army of Red Mist now a bloody heap, the Bloodmist Army rises to fill the void."

    "Where the Army of Red Mist trained to aim for the neck, the Bloodmist prefer to aim for the belly."

    "These pauldrons were once owned by a mighty officer of the Bloodmist Army. Axe is only too pleased to tell the tale of their encounter."

    ^ Seems that Axe will do the same with this army. Kill everybody.
    Last edited by LinoPaladino; 08-03-2012 at 06:58 AM.

  3. #523
    Basic Member 1337_n00b's Avatar
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    I'm not betting on Bloodmist lasting much longer.

    And talking about Lion... Pretty much what Codfish said. Sure, he says that he doesn't know him and that he's a fiend.


    But why Lion of all heroes? It could have been anyone. Or a shared rivalry line, that happens nowadays. But nope, he refers to Lion and Lion only. Which makes you think...

    Is that intentional with Valve having planned that long ago/read this thread not so long ago or did they just not hook somebody else as well?

    Because no matter how much does Axe like killing the Keen, he has 4 unused Keen Folk lines and not once does he refer to Tinker, Sniper, Clockwerk or Gyro (ally lines aside, Tinker is there for some reason one of his chosen allies, and has a pun that I honestly do not understand). In fact, he only mentions the Alchemist.
    Heroes this user should seriously reconsider ever picking again.

    THE DOTA 2 LORE MEGATHREAD IS TO BE UPDATED BY JULY 5TH

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  4. #524
    Basic Member LinoPaladino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1337_n00b View Post

    And talking about Lion... Pretty much what Codfish said. Sure, he says that he doesn't know him and that he's a fiend.


    But why Lion of all heroes? It could have been anyone. Or a shared rivalry line, that happens nowadays. But nope, he refers to Lion and Lion only. Which makes you think...
    As I said too.


    Quote Originally Posted by 1337_n00b View Post
    Is that intentional with Valve having planned that long ago/read this thread not so long ago or did they just not hook somebody else as well?
    As I said too, I think Valve was not giving due importance to the Lore of the game. But now they are trying to fix it.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1337_n00b View Post
    Because no matter how much does Axe like killing the Keen, he has 4 unused Keen Folk lines.
    "A Keen worthy to fight.
    For the Keenfolk, you weren't half bad."

    Shredder, I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1337_n00b View Post
    Tinker is there for some reason one of his chosen allies, and has a pun that I honestly do not understand). In fact, he only mentions the Alchemist.
    Tinker, eh? War is an Axe-act science!
    Tinker, eh? War is an Exact science!

  5. #525
    Volunteer Moderator Hefaistus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Codfish View Post
    I'm not sure how we're warping anything? Finding out how lines are connected to lore, whether they're actually deeper than just simple banter between foes/allies, means deriving the context in which they're spoken. Oglodi are a close-knit race (similar to the Keen). They call each other cousins, kin; they consider one another family. Axe's line, "Axe knows you not, fiend", is basically him calling Lion a stranger. What kind of context can you fit there that isn't him refusing to recognize Lion as a part of the 'family'?
    Just because I say to the president of the USA that '[I] know him not', doesn't immediately make me an USA resident that defies the president. I remain a Dutch resident. Lion was famous at one point, what is to say that his fame didn't cross over to other folks as well?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Codfish View Post
    Also, you're taking the word "unrecognizable" too seriously. I could go even further and say that, if he was unrecognizable, we wouldn't be able to recognize him at all as even being vaguely humanoid in shape. Not even as a formless blob, since you could still "recognize" it. He'd have to be some sort of Lovecraftian monster that would make you go crazy from how impossible he looked for him to be unrecognizable.
    Unrecognizable, as in, not looking anything like how he previously looked. For all we know, he could've been a Keen (disregarding the fact for a moment, for all intents and purposes, that the Keen don't use magic).

    Quote Originally Posted by 1337_n00b View Post
    But why Lion of all heroes? It could have been anyone. Or a shared rivalry line, that happens nowadays. But nope, he refers to Lion and Lion only. Which makes you think...
    Because Valve is known for trolling its fanbase (TF2's Pyro gender debate, anyone?).

    But let's put it differently. If Lion is an Oglodi, and I'm saying if, then why does Axe have only 1 voiceline for him, and Disruptor none? Axe has 6 voicelines for Disruptor, and 9 for Warlock. Meanwhile, Disruptor has 5 voicelines for Axe, and 4 for Warlock. Both also have plenty of voicelines for Keens, a race they do not get along with, or so it would seem. If Valve really is intending for there to be a relation between Lion and the Oglodi, surely they would implement more voicework between them?
    Axe currently has a random voiceline for Lion, much alike how he has voicelines for Spectre, Pudge, Zeus, Broodmother, etc. I see no reason why it suddenly suggests a link between Lion and the Oglodi.

    My point here is, people are staring themselves blind on one voiceline, immediately beholding it as the missing link between Lion and the Oglodi. It's not. It's a random voiceline like many others, and it means very little. It's merely Axe insulting Lion's 'celebrity' status. That's it.
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  6. #526
    Basic Member 1337_n00b's Avatar
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    Because Valve is known for trolling its fanbase (TF2's Pyro gender debate, anyone?).
    Well that's the version I'd like to run with. Because in it, I have been noticed and heard.

    But... Yeeeeeeeeeah, that part about Lion having been a leader of a rather big organisation that he later betrayed and slaughtered most of who used to serve him...

    Well hell's bells, he kind of IS a bit like Axe.
    Heroes this user should seriously reconsider ever picking again.

    THE DOTA 2 LORE MEGATHREAD IS TO BE UPDATED BY JULY 5TH

    Visit the Dota 2 Lore Megathread. Renovation ongoing.

  7. #527
    Hm. The idea of Lion being an Oglodi doesn't settle well with me. Then again, I don't like the idea of Warlock being an Oglodi either, but what's done is done. I always thought of him as just being a human who's appearance was corrupted by his demonic practices (think Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars). As for Lion, I agree with Hefaistus: his transformation seems to be more than just the sprouting of horns, mottling of skin and demonifying of hand. I sort of like the idea of him being a former human as well, but whatever.

  8. #528
    Basic Member thyL's Avatar
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    While we're at deciphering lore from sound files: Anyone else besides me, who's sad that Sniper has no real rival lines? I imagine he should at least adress the Keen (and/or Smallkeen) in a way.


  9. #529
    Basic Member LinoPaladino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hefaistus View Post
    It's merely Axe insulting Lion's 'celebrity' status. That's it.
    This make sense.

  10. #530
    Unrecognizable, as in, not looking anything like how he previously looked. For all we know, he could've been a Keen (disregarding the fact for a moment, for all intents and purposes, that the Keen don't use magic).
    You, uuuuh, missed the point a bit..


    Because Valve is known for trolling its fanbase (TF2's Pyro gender debate, anyone?).
    You have to admit that this is a poor argument, man.

    [quote[
    But let's put it differently. If Lion is an Oglodi, and I'm saying if, then why does Axe have only 1 voiceline for him, and Disruptor none? Axe has 6 voicelines for Disruptor, and 9 for Warlock. Meanwhile, Disruptor has 5 voicelines for Axe, and 4 for Warlock. Both also have plenty of voicelines for Keens, a race they do not get along with, or so it would seem. If Valve really is intending for there to be a relation between Lion and the Oglodi, surely they would implement more voicework between them?[/quote]

    You do understand that the heroes who were made at the beginning didn't even have rivalry lines? And that Axe just got lines that linked him to the Oglodi and Keen?

    Axe currently has a random voiceline for Lion, much alike how he has voicelines for Spectre, Pudge, Zeus, Broodmother, etc. I see no reason why it suddenly suggests a link between Lion and the Oglodi.

    My point here is, people are staring themselves blind on one voiceline, immediately beholding it as the missing link between Lion and the Oglodi. It's not. It's a random voiceline like many others, and it means very little. It's merely Axe insulting Lion's 'celebrity' status. That's it.
    It makes no sense for him to celebrate Lion's "celebrity" status with that phrase. I mean....whaaat...it'd make sense if Axe was one of Lion's fans before the latter fell, but that wouldn't make sense either. And saying Axe respected him for his strength would be a stretch as well since he's a spellcaster. Again, context is important.

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