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Thread: Dota 2 Matchmaking - Explain please?

  1. #1
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    Question Dota 2 Matchmaking - Explain please?

    I've got a few things I need to get off my chest regarding the utterly broken matchmaking-system. Today I played an All Pick game (usually I don't because I always end up on the side which picks only carries), and being that I regulary don't play AP, I picked pudge. Went mid, and did a good job against Bounty Hunter, ending up with around 9-1. Bot lane, as well as top lane, were feeding as hell. We ended up getting stomped, because all four of my players were like monkeys. Next game, I pick Pudge. Teammates pick = Clinkz, Brood, Axe (ok pick), and Shadow Fiend. I got Firstblood top, but mid lane ended up with 0-7 after around 10 minutes or so. Bot lane were feeding as well. I had two russians on my team, and one from Czech. They were continously writing things in russian, and saying in all chat how everybody else sucked, and they should report.

    Now, these two specific games are in fact only two games, how can I state that the matchmaking-system is broken?

    This is something that has been going on for a while. I end up with shitkids and noobs (dispite having 200-300 games+ won), fairly 70% of the games I play. I have in Win\Loss with Morphling 0-7. Last time I played morph I had 9-1. Game before that; 11-1. It is IMPOSSIBLE to play Dota 2 at the moment. It's fairly frustrating, and I feel that the potential for this game has been dragged so far down into the mud because of this, that I'm considering not playing at all.
    It is such an incredible game, and I loved the transition from Dota to Dota 2. Gamemechanics, graphics, and the resemblense is just magnificent, but now I'm feeling like I could just be playing Dota 1 on Battle.net (which I btw was not before, but an invitechannel).

    For me the system feels totally broken, and there are far more variables which need to be taken into consideration if it is going to be fine. I'm talking about Kill\Death\Assist ratio, Support\Carry-preferable roles, and maybe even how you play that role.

    I'm not looking for comments like "if you dont liek it dont play" and "maybe you suck?" etc. I'm looking for constructive comments, which might explain why this system needs to be this way (if it has too), and why\how it can\can't be changed. Your thoughts regarding the system as a whole.



    thanks,

  2. #2
    Basic Member Irrelevante's Avatar
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    Oh look! Stickies!

    http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=29937
    http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=32119

    Before your thread gets locked:

    We can't help but tag you as a bad player if you refuse to post any sort of MID to even prove your stories. If, indeed, you're matched with -as you've put it- skitkids and noobs in 70% (what an exageration) of your games, it's because you're no better (You can't constantly be matched with/against them if your MMR is indeed higher than theirs). Having a 9-1/11-1/whatever score against other shitkids/noobs (because, let's be honest, MM is not only placing "bad" players on your side) is nothing to brag about nor is it a good indication that you should be sent to a higher MM percentile.
    Last edited by Irrelevante; 08-14-2012 at 10:31 PM.

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    There is already good post with suggestion for improvement of MM system (let me google it for you --> http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=32067 ). Not sure why you claiming that you end up in such teams 70% of the time, I do occasionally end up in bad teams but not very often. Best thing you can really do is to get some friends and play in a party

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    Why isn't matchmaking with tens of thousands of people the same as my invite channel with <100 people?

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    MM isn't working. Can't be.

    In last 2 weeks I came from dunno... 50+ w/l diference to less then 10. And I don't play much (work). I realise that most of the game I lose is cuz of russians, but still.... if MM would be working something like this wouldn't be possible.

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    Basic Member Direclaw's Avatar
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    Dota is a game played 5 x 5 so its a game that requires a lot of teamwork, if you like playing without stable team and you keep asking a computer to find team mates for you, dont complain when they are not good ones. If this kind of thing bothers you so much you shoud find friends instead of blaiming the logic of the program. Machmaking is for those who dont have a stable team, its almost impossible for a computer predict if a player is going to play well or not.

    Dota has 90 heroes released, no one is good with all of them, a person can own the shit out of people when playing Skeleton King and be a total bullshit as Invoker, so when the guy tries to learn a hero on your team you are going to have a bad time, thats no way arround it, there is nothing a program can do to replace stable friends. So this is a message for ALL THOSE PEOPLE who cry and cry and cry on the forums asking for a machmaking system remake: Get Friends, stop expecting a computer to find people who will replace them, its a 5x5 game, there is no way arround it.

    And btw onesided maches is a realy common thing even in championship maches. And another thing sinse they dont say how the machmaking logic actualy works is TOTALY IMPOSSIBLE for the beta testers to propose changes, we cant say things like "O try to get the range wider" because we dont actualy know nothing about how wide it actualy is, and shit like "Ban all the russian players" doesnt help either.

    Plz dont change the machmaking system its realy good as it is.

    Btw thats just my opinion, you asked for it, and im giving it, if you dont like it im coo with it. If you are realy bothered post your experience on the stiky. Yes they actualy read it. Or support threads that are sugesting things that you would like to see implemented. I put the ones that I like on my signature for example.

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    Basic Member awes0meaxel's Avatar
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    @Direclaw:
    As much as I loath someone who wants a forfeit feature, I'm going to have to agree with your above post, 100percent. I couldn't have put it better myself. See, the thing people fail to understand is that this is a beta, and it will get WAY better on full release.

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    Quote Originally Posted by awes0meaxel View Post
    @Direclaw:
    As much as I loath someone who wants a forfeit feature, I'm going to have to agree with your above post, 100percent. I couldn't have put it better myself. See, the thing people fail to understand is that this is a beta, and it will get WAY better on full release.
    Exacly. I do understand that this is BETA, and things might get better. For for it to get better, maybe we (as players) should contribute with thoughts and suggestions, as we are BETA-TESTERS. As the first poster failed to do (as of which I knew someone eventually would), was to see beyond MY stories and what I had to say. We have to point out the faults of a mechanism which is broken, dont you agree?

    Nevertheless, that was my intentions all along.

  9. #9
    Basic Member Irrelevante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrraan View Post
    As the first poster failed to do (as of which I knew someone eventually would), was to see beyond MY stories and what I had to say.
    What did you have to say, again? MM was utterly broken? Using utterly is an entire exageration of the matter and so is using broken. Yes, the algorithm throws some really bad games as Dire already pointed out and for players who are so unconsistent with their skill throughout their games (the people you're matched with and probably you, too) it's hard for the algorithm to generate games that pleases everyone since it can't predict when a player is going to suck at his current hero/lineup/lane/setup/etc. Yes, beta testers are supposed to give feedback but that doesn't mean every piece of feedback (read: yours) is going to be useful. Again, you failed to post on the appropriate feedback topics (and still failed to do so in lieu of keeping a soon-to-be-dead thread alive), failed to even reply to opposing statements or failed to give any useful feedback (There's a reason why there's a one-sided match log and why they ask you to post MIDs).

    Giving us a few stories of "how my teammates screwed up my games" and then doing the illogical jump to the conclusion that it's the matchmaking's fault is anything but worthwhile feedback. There is nothing to see "beyond" your OP.

  10. #10
    Basic Member Hadgehog's Avatar
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    A popular threoy is that current m-m is 'bad' at times, because game is in beta and Valve puts 'number of games played' over 'quality of those games'(because I think it's logical, that sometimes more time is needed to make to equal teams, so you can't have both of these at same time). Because to fix bugs we don't need fair and balanced games in particular - ANY games will do. So, hopefully they already have some improved m-m mechanisms ready, just waiting to launch them when there are more people around(to compensate for longer wait time).

    That's probably why all 'm-m' threads are closed quickly - Valve are aware of that and probably already have ideas for that.

    PS Also, this may sound a bit unrelated, but if you are doing something that you can't enjoy at all and that brings no benefit to you(like keep playing in unfair matches), and you can't stop doing that either, that's an addiction(and you should really ask yourself, if you need that).
    Last edited by Hadgehog; 08-15-2012 at 02:20 AM.

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