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Thread: Wrong idea with the diretide contest.

  1. #1
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    Wrong idea with the diretide contest.

    I've come to the conclusion that the sugar rush contest has come to promote the wrong type of competition and I'd like to reason why.

    The sugar rush race basically needs 2 things: a group of 10 people that will work together and a strategy.

    Whats great is any group of 10 people could have won in the first phase with the right strategy (or exploit, however you want to frame it). It's a good example of how the right strategy helps the a team win the contest. That should be the goal right? To come up with the best way to quickly beat rosh?

    Unfortunately, that's not what it's become. What's been highlighted in this last cycle is that "teams" with the most time can take the best strategy and use/modify it until they win. The majority of teams competing in the latest cycle had not come up with any of the strategy involved in killing rosh the fastest. What happened is each team saw the current best team's strategy and spent time on beating it by a small amount. And these games took as long as 7 hours each. This basically kills any chance a "regular" player with a group of friends might have at winning with a unique strategy.

    What would happen if someone spent a week building a model comparing all 93choose10 heroes and Xchoose6 items and developed the perfect strat (obviously you can't account for all of the unique variables between the heroes that can't really be modeled like this). You'd think someone like this might have a chance if they got 9 of their friends to help. Well it wouldn't happen because as soon as his group hit the front of the diretide page with all of their strategy revealed, teams with way more time will use the strategy and play till they beat it.

    So the point of this post is to promote the strategy behind the sugar rush race. With the current fastest times always being updated, coming up with a winning strategy is worthless unless you have the insane amount of time to play the game with all of your friends until the cycle ends. This means that the ending of each cycle needs to be announced so a team can set up a time just before hand to execute their strategy without being beaten by copycats OR hide the winning teams replay and only show the current best time.

    Leave the speculation in the air for awhile. Don't announce the winners before they've won. Let people wonder how it was done for a bit. It'll even make it more fun for those not participating. Some people just love to theoryocraft without being able to gather 9 others and go for the gold. It's no fun when everyone knows the best way. Just look at the discussion about the next best way to win over at reddit. So much better than the whining and "umadbro?".

  2. #2
    I disagree, if replays with records wouldn't be available right after the game ppl would abuse pudge exploit for god know how long. If some other team beat your rocord after you already made one what's the point of complaining? do you want to get all the couriers for yourself or smth?

  3. #3

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by IWantToHelpAsMuchAsIcan View Post
    I disagree, if replays with records wouldn't be available right after the game ppl would abuse pudge exploit for god know how long. If some other team beat your rocord after you already made one what's the point of complaining? do you want to get all the couriers for yourself or smth?
    The developers wouldn't be oblivious to the exploit, only the rest of the public. Think about if the replay was hidden in the first cycle. The record would be a fraction of a second due to damaging roshan beforehand, but without it being known how. That would have caused others to come up with their own exploits, instead of just copying the exact way the first person did it. Someone may have even come up with the pudge exploit on the very first cycle.

    This competition isn't promoting inspiration to win, because anything you can come up with will be taken and used by people that have more time to play as a group of 10 than you do. It makes the chance of anyone that doesn't have a large amount of time to play with 10 people practically 0. As soon as a group comes up with a new idea, it will be taken and they will lose. Even when all the exploits are hammered out, the best legit strategy will be taken and the team or teams of 10 with the most time will use it until they have a better time.

    All I want is a chance at it. Even if I never get 9 others together, I'd like to see someone with a good unique idea win other than those same 3 groups of 10 that have just been using everyone's idea but their own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiener View Post
    What are you trying to say here? There is a whole thread for me to read.

    I even said in my original post that a group of 10 was needed. But then I pretty clearly (at least in my opinion) outlined that unless you had an absurd amount of time to queue as 10, you can not win. And that is a very very small minority of the dota2 population.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoutphil View Post
    What are you trying to say here? There is a whole thread for me to read.

    I even said in my original post that a group of 10 was needed. But then I pretty clearly (at least in my opinion) outlined that unless you had an absurd amount of time to queue as 10, you can not win. And that is a very very small minority of the dota2 population.
    That's like excusing a millionth thread about the same subject by saying all the threads were too long to read.
    Last edited by Kubelecer; 11-06-2012 at 06:32 AM.

  6. #6
    There are some pros and cons but imo it's a bit problematic because of the valuable reward. Maybe in future events, tho time will tell what Valve is going to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kubelecer View Post
    That's like excusing a millionth thread about the same subject by saying all the threads were too long to read.
    Just posting a link to a thread means nothing, and so I asked what was meant by it.

    I read through the thread and the main point being argued in there isn't exactly what I described above. I understand that it is a huge thread complaining about the competition, but it very directed at 10 players cooperating and not the fact that only a select few groups of 10 players can ever hope to win because of the format of the competition.

  8. #8
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    Certainly an interesting point, but what it does do is filter down so that the most skilled group will get the reward. So, should the people who thought of the best strategy, or should the people who can execute the strategy the best get the courier?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugz View Post
    Certainly an interesting point, but what it does do is filter down so that the most skilled group will get the reward. So, should the people who thought of the best strategy, or should the people who can execute the strategy the best get the courier?
    Yes, execution is a big thing here. My opinion on that is there is a lot of variation, so that with enough time, a group of 10 could repeat a certain strategy and beat it with either a slight improvement or just by some luck. That's why I'd like more emphasis on a better strategy. When it finally comes down to a dps race instead of some silly exploit, execution of any strat will matter, but when the winning strat is given away for free to everyone, the groups with the most time will be able to capitalize on the variance.

  10. #10
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    already a thread for this
    Last edited by MrSoada; 11-06-2012 at 12:21 PM.

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