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Thread: How MM feels to "pro" players

  1. #1
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    How MM feels to "pro" players

    Hello I was really puzzled how MM might work so I did a little research
    The problem started about a year ago with the first wave of players. First few months after the international the quality couldnt be better (ofc because there was like 500ppl online and 100 of them were admins or w/e) only one small downside of this was waiting time to get into game (like 3-20min if i remember correctly)
    I dont know why didnt u adjust the system a bit but it seems to me that it works like this: Hi! I want u to have 50percent win ratio have fun! ....Which is fine I guess but what I dont get is why "good players" (I like to think of myself that way) are getting teams of total...well...not so capable players.
    Why wont u make either more categories or some kind of ladder to climb with a team to open the "top 1%"? I actually created a new account just to find out the exact threshold when the games are going towards the raging point .
    I set newbie difficulty and I played against noobs...ok...I won 5 games quickly and my opponents were slowly getting better but I couldnt say the same about my team. After 6 games I was first time moved from "normal" to "high" pool only one difference to normal is that there is no more "firsttime" players who stay cluelessly on the lane
    First game I played (2nd in very high pool) against tryhard stack was 12th game (all heroes picked with carry easy lane and brood hard lane) and I was still getting total noobs to my team. From about 15th game I was always placed in the highest pool - im guessing here but from the total of ~30 in highest Ive had maybe thrice better team than my opponents.
    I feel kinda like cpt. obvious here but: this game is not casual atleast not for everybody - people are actually trying to win more often then not - they care - if they are good=spend a lot of time in this game - slapped in the face by system
    Im competitive and I like to win and life goes on even if I lose but I just dont see a reason why I should rage on pubs if there is no higher goal then "very high" to reach...it is a situation without hope to improve or am I to hope it will get better after 700 games? On my main account Ive played like 800 games and I enjoyed first 200 and then like 50 tops.
    I asked some of my friends and they agreed the matchmaking sucks. Not for everyone ofc there is like 150000 online and Im certain majority is satisfied but I also think they wouldnt really mind if there was like 5 more categories = they would play with better match to them and they would have some goal to reach the higher group.
    For example I like the silver-gold-grandmaster system SC2 has but unfortunately there is too many variables in 5vs5 match and system just cant determine the skill level accurately. Thats why I suggested there might be a team needed to reach the top tier...that way majority of players wouldnt be affected and if they were no longer satisfied with the same pub they could participate as well
    My tryhard account- https://dotabuff.com/players/114213950 I played 14 of total 46 games with my friend
    In those 46 games I have played my k/d/a was 642:228:678 (thats not exactly accurate I just counted it quickly) with win ration of only 63.04%. Its like 15:5:16 even the games Ive lost.
    In half of those matches I canceled the search when it got over the 3minut mark to make sure there wont be too big skill difference (it was)
    It might have got lost in the wall of text so my main idea here was: Is it really worth having a system which pushes you to the 50% even tho it doesnt really equalls to a balanced games? Me and some of I talked to are slowly stopping to play pubs after tens of thousand games in dota1.
    Please dont move this tread just yet I would like to hear some opinions since I put in a lot of time.


    E: IF YOU DONT WANT TO READ ALL REPLIES: my conclusion from all the post is that system is simply not letting bad players go under some ratio of losses in order to keep them happy = keep them in game
    altho this has undesirable effect for many because good players are insted of being put into their own category forced to play with the biggest trash in order to keep them in game
    one guy given example how a player intentionaly fed 200 games in a row and he is still at 45% WR just because when he is on the edge he is paired with good players who carry him
    if said above is true good players are basically doormats to keep the shitty players happy

    As you might have figgured from my previous posts Id be glad if this system paired same categories together which would ultimately make good players play good games and shitty players play on their level aswell and that would resolve in 50:50WR anyway
    thank you for your attention have a nice game : )
    Last edited by reejd; 11-16-2012 at 01:49 PM.

  2. #2
    Well, I've been watching Merlini play pubs. He has like 75% winrate, his games are fair IMO.
    Btw I just read the final. TL;Just read the last lines.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by reejd View Post
    I dont know why didnt u adjust the system a bit but it seems to me that it works like this: Hi! I want u to have 50percent win ratio have fun!
    Quote Originally Posted by EricTams View Post
    - We don't enforce a 50-50 win rate (Maybe we should?) instead we always try to make the best match possible. I'm always happy when I see someone with a win rate close to 50% though since it means that we haven't been skewing one way or the other in giving matches that were too hard or too easy. I totally agree with your desire to have fewer stomps though.
    The rest is all poorly formatted, repeated garbage too, here's my opinion, read the stickies.

    Also stop using the word tryhard if you want to pretend to be competitive.

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    I felt like I need to write down all the reasons behind my thoughts if I said "this is good and this isnt" nobody would paid attention

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugz View Post
    The rest is all poorly formatted, repeated garbage too, here's my opinion, read the stickies.

    Also stop using the word tryhard if you want to pretend to be competitive.
    Yes and majority of players having ~50% win rate is just coincidence. They told alot of things that werent actually correct.

  6. #6
    Basic Member Hive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugz View Post
    Also stop using the word tryhard if you want to pretend to be competitive.
    It's common knowledge that anyone who is good at anything never tried. DUHHHHH

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    I have to agree with the point of op.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BJSV View Post
    Yes and majority of players having ~50% win rate is just coincidence. They told alot of things that werent actually correct.

    You mean on average people are average at the game? Holy crap I never would have guessed.

    You do realize that the majority can't have anything other than a 50% win rate right? Because if the majority had 60, 70, 80% win rates then it would either mean that losses weren't being tallied or there were a select small number of accounts throwing every single game and queuing almost 24/7.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugz View Post
    You mean on average people are average at the game? Holy crap I never would have guessed.

    You do realize that the majority can't have anything other than a 50% win rate right? Because if the majority had 60, 70, 80% win rates then it would either mean that losses weren't being tallied or there were a select small number of accounts throwing every single game and queuing almost 24/7.
    No. If MM arent working towards 50% than it can happen that ppl would get even 500 losing streaks. MM is not a luck of the draw. It is deliberate matching of ppl so their win rate stays near 50%.

    A month ago russians had some ISP problems, and every game a russian dc. So in one game I had russian and lost because of dc, next game enemy team had him. During that day this pattern was repeated way too many times.

    Also other MMs, for example MM in LoL, works in a way to force 50% win rate upon you. So you want to tell me that one MM is doing it perfectly because it wants to and other is doing it perfectly on random? If MM didnt want to match you to 50%, than queue time would be 0 sec, because at every given moment you can find at least 10 random ppl queuing.

  10. #10
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    Couple of things here:

    Pros almost never solo queue. Ever. Guys like Warden, woh was great in HoN, have an almost 70% win rate here. IT's because he only plays with other top players.

    Merlini/demon aren't that good, but play with at ton of players. I'm personally 3-0 on the guy and beat him middle, but he only queues with either Maelk/etc, or old DXD friends.

    Third, DotA 2, of all the mobas, has the very worst match making. The match making is gutter trash. Why? Few things - HoN/LoL actually have visible rankings. You don't get shitty kids running and calling mid every game because they presume they're better than everyone else. They know their spot from the start.

    DotA 2 caters to the casual pub player, the whiner, the never will be good. Valve is more interested in not offending and making money off the shop than promoting a solid match making system. First thing is showing kids that stink, then having a system based on their visible rating, This worked really well in HoN. Valve is trying something different, and it isn't good.

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