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Thread: General Mana/HP, INT/STR thread.

  1. #1
    Basic Member shalafi's Avatar
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    General Mana/HP, INT/STR thread.

    Stat mechanics have not been correctly ported to DotA2, so I'll explain how they work in DotA1, how they work in DotA2, and link to relevant reports to this issue. I made this thread mainly to show how spread these mechanics were in DotA1, and hopefully convince the devs to implement them fully, instead of scripting a few skills.


    In DotA1:
    Changes in the base STR/INT (white numbers) keep the difference between max and current values. That means that if you're at 100/200 and get extra 100 points (of HP or mana) from a base stat, you're at 200/300.

    Changes in the bonus STR/INT (green numbers) or HP/mana from items or skills keep the % value. That means that if you're at 100/200 and get extra bonus 100 points (of HP or mana), you're at 150/300.


    Interactions working correctly in DotA2:
    -Decay is a base strength change (on both dirge and the targets). Because of that, if Dirge is at 1/1900HP and uses decay on one hero, he'll get to 77/1976HP. The enemy hero will lose 76 current and max HP, and the he'll be dealt the damage. This is working correctly in DotA2.
    -Morph is base stats. This is working correctly in DotA2.
    -Armlet: It adds 25 bonus STR, but then a trigger makes sure it behaves exactly as if it was base STR. This is working correctly in DotA2.
    -Death Pact: Behaves like "base" HP when you use it (so you get the same increase in current and maxHP) but then you only lose the Max HP when it ends.This is working correctly in DotA2.

    Interactions working incorrectly in DotA2:
    -Level up STR/INT is base stats. So if you're at 1/1900hp and level up, and you gain 3 STR per level, you'll be at 58/1957. This doesn't include the "+Stats" skill that you can level up. This is NOT working correctly in DotA2., your HP and mana increase in percentage.
    -Whirling Death, Essence shift, Astral Imprisonment, Flesh Heap and Glaives of wisdom all add/subtract base stats. This is NOT working correctly in DotA2.. These skills behave as if they added/removed bonus stats, so they don't have as much impact when the hero is on low mana or low hp. For instace, if you use level4 AI on a hero with 130/4000 mana, the current/max mana will become 126/3870. But they should become 0/3870. Same with Essence shift (or Whirling Death) vs HP/mana pools (Essence Shift should reduce 19hp/13 mana per hit, until the target is at 0 mana/hp). In the case of Flesh Heap and Glaives, it should "heal" HP/Mana to pudge/silencer, but it does not, it increases the current HP/Mana keeping the percentage before the stat gain.
    - Morph and Invoker gain base stats in WC3 DotA but bonus stats in DotA2. It's not too relevant.
    Last edited by shalafi; 03-01-2013 at 05:51 AM.

  2. #2
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    i believe that you are talking about hp/mana points when using the 100/200 point example in your wc3 dota description.


    p.s.: armlet gives 25 bonus strength, not hp.
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  3. #3
    Basic Member shalafi's Avatar
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    Fixed the armlet description.

    And yeah, I'm talking about either mana or str points, it doesn't matter. It's also impossible to have those values, it's just an example so it's easy to understand the two ways to adjust HP/Mana.

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    Invoker's orbs also give base stats in DotA 1.

  5. #5
    Basic Member shalafi's Avatar
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    Confirmed and added Invoker.


    Tested and added Outworld Destroyer. Yeah, lvl 4 AI "burns" 130 mana for 60 seconds. It also costs 180-130 = 50 mana (for 60s, when it ends it costs you the full 180 mana). That's a huge buff in teamfights, and bit of a nerf in harass (but not that much, since lowering their int as of now already allows you to refill all mana with 1 bottle charge). But in midgame fights, being able to burn 130 mana, and having much higher current mana thanks to the +130 mana from 10 base int is a very relevant/powerful mechanic for OD.

  6. #6
    GJ.
    Essense shift should keep the difference beetween current and max mana pool for exemple, until your current mana is equal to max?

  7. #7
    Basic Member Equal's Avatar
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    Thats some hard stuff.
    Thank you for intense testing.

    I support that they should port it just like it was.
    Lets hope its nor too late to change the code.

  8. #8
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    Really nice find, some stuff ( esp OD not gaining base INT ) was bothering me but I couldn't be arsed to actually think about it. Thanks to you !

  9. #9
    Basic Member azraqul's Avatar
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    Really good finds. Let's hope for quick fixes.

    One note though, you keep referring to Morph giving STR/INT when it gives STR/AGI. Just delete the INT part from that one.

  10. #10
    Basic Member shalafi's Avatar
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    Moved Decay to Glitchy, it has a weaker version of Armlet's glitch (I guess it's because the HP gain is lower) since the patch.


    Edit: Added Whirling Death.
    Last edited by shalafi; 12-14-2012 at 04:01 PM.

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