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Thread: An analysis of penalty systems from other online games in comparison to DotA 2's

  1. #1
    Basic Member Bleako's Avatar
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    Post A short analysis of penalty systems of other online games in comparison to DotA 2's

    As suggested in the comments, some additional details about this post:

    Please notice that this thread's purpose is to show other game companies' stance on abusive behavior, not the methods that they use to hand out their penalties. I am simply comparing the penalties that verbally abusive players can get in these games. I am all for improving the mute system but removing the mute penalty simply isn't a solution. There needs to be a penalty for abusive behavior.

    Blizzard games (WoW, Diablo III, Starcraft II)

    "We want to ensure that all players can fully enjoy their gameplay experience. Sometimes disciplinary action must be taken against disruptive players who are negatively impacting others' play experience or the service itself. Though taking disciplinary action is never pleasant, it is occasionally warranted in order to maintain the quality of service for all."

    Penalty: Text warning -> Temporary account suspension (progressive) -> Final text warning -> Account closure

    Why it wouldn't work in DotA 2: The game is free-to-play, all features can be enjoyed right from the get-go and therefore the game doesn't require spending time, work and money on it to access certain features. The game also lacks a ladder system and a ranked mode.


    Call of Duty series (MW3, Black Ops II)

    "Any user who is found to use aggressive, offensive, derogatory or racially charged language is subject to penalty. Any user who creates an emblem with sexually gratuitous images, racially offensive material or foul language is subject to penalty."

    Penalty: Temporary account suspension -> Temporary suspension and removal of voice chat privileges -> Permanent ban from online play

    Why it wouldn't work in DotA 2: Complete removal of voice chat privileges would be a big issue in this game. Voice chat is essentially more efficient than text chat at conveying information and a permanent voice ban doesn't allow for behavior improvement.


    League of Legends

    "Players shouldn’t need to rely on features like the mute button or language filter to engage with other players in positive ways. When a player verbally abuses another player and forces him to use the mute button, they have already created a negative experience for that player. More info: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribunal/en/faq/ "

    Penalty: Email warning -> Temporary account suspension (progressive) -> Indefinite account suspension

    Why it wouldn't work in DotA 2: Even though LoL's penalty system is quite efficient, getting one's account banned is far less problematic in DotA 2. Users do not have to grind to Account Level 30 to enjoy all the features of the game (runes, masteries, etc), do not have to buy characters and can fully share cosmetic items between accounts. Also, DotA 2 (again) doesn't have a ladder system.


    TERA Online

    "Here at En Masse, we are gamers first. We realize that people make mistakes, get heated, and sometimes lose their cool. We will look at the intent and context behind all violations of our Terms of Service and Rules of Conduct before taking action against your account. Our goal is to keep the game fun for everyone."

    Penalty: Temporary mute ban (progressive) -> Temporary account suspension -> Account closure

    Why it wouldn't work in DotA 2: Temporary and permanent account suspension would not do much. People can already create smurf accounts and, as mentioned before, there are very few disadvantages to losing a DotA 2 account.


    Wargaming.net games (World of Tanks, World of Warplanes)

    "Excessive profanity and inappropriate language is not welcome. It is suggested to ensure that the censor filter is switched on. The censor filter is not an excuse to break the existing game and chat rules, and excessive profanity will still be sanctioned. Typing in such a way to bypass the censor filter is prohibited. Insults, personal attacks, abuse or harassment are not tolerated on any level."

    Penalty: Temporary account suspension (progressive) -> Account closure

    Why it wouldn't work in DotA 2: See above. People losing their WoT accounts are probably crying though considering how time-consuming it is to unlock things in this game. (Interestingly, Wargaming.net have a specific rule that states that you can get a suspension for speaking non-english languages in the regular chat lobby... so apparently it's not such a farfetched idea.)

    DotA 2

    "One of the first things we dug into were the factors that contributed to a player quitting. [...] Losing a bunch of Dota 2 games doesn’t seem to cause people to quit. But one thing that did stand out in the data was the amount of negative communication between players. Put simply, you are more likely to quit if there is abusive chat going on in your games."

    Penalty: Temporary mute ban (progressive)

    As you can see, the penalty is much different than other online games which is understandably confusing... but unlike all the other companies, Valve does not hand out permanent bans for abusive behavior. All of these games have a competitive environment and yet Valve are the only ones trying to give players the chance to improve their attitude indefinitely.

    To put it simply, if an aggressive, abusive player in DotA 2 has the same kind of behavior in any of these games listed above, in the long run they will end up getting a permanent ban.
    Last edited by Bleako; 06-28-2013 at 06:26 PM.

  2. #2
    Basic Member Bleako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aantsi View Post
    Huh, you're retarded. [Angry rant] Valve dicksucking.
    You should probably take the time to read the post instead of wasting time insulting me, you may learn a few things. You should also apply this behavior in-game.

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    You should probably add LPQ to Valve.

    Also you can't compete in tournaments if your suspended/banned by Riot.
    Last edited by Ladar; 06-25-2013 at 02:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleako View Post
    You should probably take the time to read the post instead of wasting time insulting me, you may learn a few things. You should also apply this behavior in-game.
    Well he has a point how can you and whoever defends this system not understand that this mute system is a total fail and its giving only negative feedback to the community.

  5. #5
    Basic Member GermanViet's Avatar
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    thank you blaeko!

    nice analysis..
    Abuse of Language Filter as Reportable Offense?<-- link!

    Quote Originally Posted by ThoApplesin View Post
    Being confused is alright, admitting it is honorable, not admitting it is bad, not being aware about is worse and sad.
    Being incorrect is not good but understandable, however going all snob and violent at the mean time is horrible.
    But in the end, everything will be left behind when you take the step towards the right side, there is nothing that a sincere sorry cannot remedy.

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    Blizzard: human beings check the reports
    Call of Duty: human beings check the reports
    League of Lesb... Legends: human beings check the reports
    Tera: human beings check the reports
    Dota 2: "i report you because you did not buy courier. fuck you. <3 valve"

    you see the "pattern"? btw valve's blog post was a pile of trash. as i said in a different thread they just posted their money-making hungry opinions. they see us as numbers in their pattern, as a way to solve their algorythms. there is no "Bleako" or "SabotaZ" and stuff but just numbers. and finally lets be honest. when i first started playing doto 6 or 7 years ago, everyone was trashtalking. this is the nature of the game. if you fail, be ready to hear some bad stuff "Here at En Masse, we are gamers first. We realize that people make mistakes, get heated, and sometimes lose their cool.". this is what will improve you. stop acting like an 11 y/o girl and man up.

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    Basic Member F2P's Avatar
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    For Blizzard, they actually have CSRs look into all cases (during the game's peak, the GM queue was almost always full and gave that warning) - found myself making a bunch of silly jokes in trade chat constantly which nobody had a problem with and the only time I got a ban in many years of playing was from spamming /chicken at a foe. Who knew.

    SW:ToR was more restricted. Actually got a ban from there by a CSR for making a tasteless joke in trade. But nothing else... not even taunting the enemy with no chat barriers. Too bad that game was still bugged, had a shitty graphics engine that couldn't handle more than 8 people in one area, and I got bored from having the long end of the stick on horrific class balance. (PvP Sith Assassin tank on launch. lots of lols)

    I wish they would start permabanning Dota 2 accounts just to see the reaction from everyone hit by it. Having to move all those items just for being reported enough times. Thanks for putting the comparison together.

    And yeah... adding to the above post. Common element being human intervention and investigation which this game is sorely lacking.
    Last edited by F2P; 06-25-2013 at 02:22 PM.
    0 1 2 つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Give Solo Queue Back!

  8. #8
    Basic Member Noya's Avatar
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    Great analysis!

    The problem is the higher possibility of ""undeserved"" (note the "") punishment if the system is fully automated. I think in the other games you mentioned there's people reviewing before permanently suspending an account, right?
    Last edited by Noya; 06-25-2013 at 02:22 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Physicaque View Post
    TB = TotallyimBalanced
    Spoiler: 
    Let the Hammer Fall!

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    Quote Originally Posted by F2P View Post
    I wish they would start permabanning Dota 2 accounts just to see the reaction from everyone hit by it. Having to move all those items... Thanks for putting the comparison together.
    Actually, I think that having a 'trade ban' for muted/LPQ accounts is a great idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by fletcher View Post
    Just to clarify, there was never any "win rate" calculation. Ever. It is true that a goal of matchmaking is to make even teams. The matchmaker also will raise your Elo and try to put you in players of equivalent skill, which indirectly tries to get the win rate to 50%. However, it has never looked at your historical win rate and put you in a game where it knew that you were expected to lose.
    Is every post on this forum about the Dunning-Kruger effect?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by aantsi View Post
    Huh, you're retarded. You can be a gigantic asshole in LoL and can pretty much do anything bar spam Hitlers and niggers in allchat/global to get banned from Blizzard games (exploiting aside). In Dota 2 it's hilariously easy to get banned compared to any other game, even fucking LoL. And who gives a shit if it's not permanent, it's a free game and unlike LoL you don't need to farm anything. Just fire up a new account and you're all set. There's no point in giving permanent bans in Dota 2. If you used your time on playing the game(s) instead of making 1200+ useless dumbshit posts you'd understand why your post is just Valve dicksucking.
    I think Bleako is merely pointing out, that every major game out there has a punishment system against racism, sexism, homophobia and xenophobia. If you pay closer look on the reviewed games, you will clearly see, that he picked famous ones, that rely heavily on communication with the team mates.

    I think, he also made this thread to show, that Valve is not some tyrant, implementing a "communication ban system in a communication oriented game". They sure know, what they are doing, because among other reasons, they also have a reputation to uphold.

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