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penseur
12-30-2011, 03:51 AM
DotA 1 had a forest behind the fountain which made it possible to hide from Pudge who is fountain farming AFKers. Dota 2 map on the otherhand does not have this, and thus makes it impossible to hide from a fountain famring Pudge. If it is not the case that DotA 2 is promoting fountain farming, it should not allow such behavior to happen. Of course fountain farming happened in DotA 1, I am not denying that. I am saying that it was a defect in the game that fountain could be killed with frostbite and the team focusfire. The reason why fountain has such high dps and kills almost any enemy who enters the area is because the game is initially designed to stop fountain farming, otherwise why bother adding the attack function to fountain at all? To make the long story short, there should be a hiding place for people to avoid heroes such as Pudge to fountain farm heroes or make it impossible to fountain farm.

eNTe_eXe
12-30-2011, 04:25 AM
I don't see a point in fountain farming. If they do such things, the game is pretty much over and will end in a few minutes.

Hasheem
12-30-2011, 04:38 AM
I simply hate it. Whenever my team does it, I focus on the ancient hoping to end the game ASAP. Don't have to tell you how awfuly boring and idiotic it is when the other team does it. IceFrog should do something about it in DotA 2. Make fountain farming impossible.

Cyberho
12-30-2011, 05:49 AM
the space around the fountain is in fog now. that was not the case in dota1.

check out navi's clip "one step ahead" where you can see that can be pretty fun.... but that is called fountain DIVING.

as said before, if pudge comes to your base to hook you, the game is pretty much over :) and that is a part of dota... it is up to players to decide how much will they humiliate their opponents.

joker
12-30-2011, 11:37 AM
in this situation it means the team defeated so .
T-down dont change the map

trena99
12-30-2011, 03:07 PM
the best part of ending a game, is the fountain farm.

Wandang
12-31-2011, 10:47 AM
just implement concede/forfeit alrdy! this solves everything.
as said if pudge can foutain farm then the game is over and u should just cc asap.

Motanum
01-02-2012, 03:50 PM
I hate that there is a bit of space where enemies can walk through without being hit by the towers. It's silly.

Houly
01-02-2012, 04:04 PM
the best part of ending a game, is the fountain farm.

I agree to a certain extend. If the opposite team has pushed down to the last building, its fun and ok (IMHO,) but if its in any other occasion its bad.


I hate that there is a bit of space where enemies can walk through without being hit by the towers. It's silly.

This seem to be a very serious bug :O

Luffydude
01-02-2012, 05:53 PM
Actually, a lot of the stuff used to fountain farm with was removed, such as CM freezing the fountain... Sniper killing the fountain...

If you are getting fountain farmed, then probably the game is over, what does it matter if you die ?

ohne_caps
02-03-2012, 05:38 PM
everyone gets fountain farmed sometimes. I see two sides discussing here :D
1. people with negative winration that get fountain farmed. And rage against it.
2. people with positive winratio that do fountain farm. Obviously likeing it.
I am for the fountain farmers and i dont get why anyone cares about it. just get a cup of coffee or something like that while getting fountain farmed and you did not waste any time ^^

rCore
02-05-2012, 02:01 PM
Lol, so, if you make coffee, then all of the sudden all the dumb timesinks of a game and bad design decissions become irrelevant and make it less of a waste of time?

Pathetic, this game can't progress with such attitudes.

VirJiL
02-05-2012, 02:42 PM
there are enough ways not to be fountain farmed

vector
02-10-2012, 02:14 AM
yeah i guess fountain farming should be avoided. just have a big enough starting area .... although it wasnt all that bad.

radaw0w
02-10-2012, 02:33 AM
fountain farming is bad maner

Pleau
02-10-2012, 08:25 AM
Maybe you shouldn't lose in such a manner that they can just fountain farm you? Hmmm?

radaw0w
02-10-2012, 08:39 AM
Maybe you shouldn't lose in such a manner that they can just fountain farm you? Hmmm?
10 years :D

Pleau
02-10-2012, 10:49 AM
10 years :D

Not sure what you're trying to say here buddy.

Anyway, I guess I should leave a constructive reply here.
Here's my view on fountain farming:
It should be left in because
1. you can just ignore it since the game is already over if you're at that stage.
2. If you can't ignore it means it pisses you off which is the correct reaction and that will motivate you to do better in other games so it doesn't happen again.

Equal
02-10-2012, 10:54 AM
There is no K/D so..... there is no point in doing it or crying about it.

ggyl
02-10-2012, 07:01 PM
All these ppl that dont care about fountain camping are probably playing with a 4-5 man party and doing this...But basically when my team or opposing team camp the fountain no one is really pushing...the games goes on longer than it needs to by minimum 5-10 mins. For ppl that are suggesting to go grab coffee and what not this is how i got my first and only abandon >_> I went to get my lunch and the game was still going on for 15 mins after i went afk with top and mid rax down -.- and the opposing team camping the fountain non stop with darkseer, omninight, pudge etc.

MetuZ
02-19-2012, 09:32 AM
Not sure what you're trying to say here buddy.

Anyway, I guess I should leave a constructive reply here.
Here's my view on fountain farming:
It should be left in because
1. you can just ignore it since the game is already over if you're at that stage.
2. If you can't ignore it means it pisses you off which is the correct reaction and that will motivate you to do better in other games so it doesn't happen again.

The fact of the matter is you're delaying a dead game. The 5 minutes you spend killing people that have ZERO chance to defend is 5 minutes they could be playing something else. Your selfish need to boost your KDR will ultimately turn players against the DotA community and directly towards games like LoL or not playing at all. Which may be fine for you because you obviously do not care if the community grows or not. There is no point to it there for it shouldn't be allowed. Getting fountain farmed is not going to allow you to increase your skills to prevent it from happening. DotA has a ton of variables that decide if you win or lose a game.

JMark1
02-19-2012, 09:48 AM
I would like the fountain to be in a higher level.. Stop the enemies vision and some miss chance against "snipers" :)

Wouldn't change the gameplay (much) but would maybe dissuade some fountain farmers from continuing

TVF
02-19-2012, 02:17 PM
I would like the fountain to be in a higher level.. Stop the enemies vision and some miss chance against "snipers" :)

Wouldn't change the gameplay (much) but would maybe dissuade some fountain farmers from continuing

I like that, plus it'd give vision of Pudges or Dark Seers trying to pull you out.

BUT, it'd take away their vision of you. Which is probably too much.

Martin Andrei
02-19-2012, 02:37 PM
It works both ways..the fountain can also be used to kill enemy heroes and such.Also fountain diving can be evaded most of the time with a bit of skill/luck(and afkers wont mind).It seems pointless to me to whine about something that does not affect the outcome of the game just becouse it chips away a little of your ego.So yeah T-down.

waqar
02-19-2012, 05:31 PM
It seems pointless to me to whine about something that does not affect the outcome of the game just becouse it chips away a little of your ego.
Actually its a waste of everyone's time. I hate it even when my team does it, everyone knows the game is over just end it instead everyone has to wait another 5-15 minutes so some people can get their K/D up to boost their little ego's. Just end the game, T-UP

Fleur De Lis
02-19-2012, 08:39 PM
It works both ways..the fountain can also be used to kill enemy heroes and such.Also fountain diving can be evaded most of the time with a bit of skill/luck(and afkers wont mind).It seems pointless to me to whine about something that does not affect the outcome of the game just becouse it chips away a little of your ego.So yeah T-down.

It's an obnoxious waste of time. It seems pointless to allow it when a team that can afford to do it and not end up giving the game away to the other team can EASILY go finish the game in 5 minutes.

DLRevan
02-19-2012, 09:59 PM
I read alot of complaints about fountain farming.

I see no suggestions on alternatives or even 'fixing' the current layout.

Personally, I am neutral on fountain farming. There is a fine line between fountain farming in order to drag a game (ignoring towers, rax), and fountain farming to actually prevent dragging of a game (preventing opposing players from defending while base is being demolished)

In a game where we have killstreak announcements, hero taunts, and other purely ego inflating features, I find the argument that 'fountain farming just feeds egos' to be rather thin.

keranov
02-20-2012, 08:11 AM
I will say my opinion with one example:

I was in a long game, where the enemy team pushed mid raxes, and they got overconfident. They tried to fountain farm, but we managed to kill their carry, and then we won the game.

When ppl try to fountain farm, it is usually to stop the other team from gathering as 5, cause if they spawn all 5 with full HP they may kill the opposing team. So in some cases we just try to keep their numbers lower than 5. Also you can stop fountain farmers in some cases with force staff, pudge hook, dark seer vacuum, etc.

Martin Andrei
02-20-2012, 10:00 AM
I will say my opinion with one example:

I was in a long game, where the enemy team pushed mid raxes, and they got overconfident. They tried to fountain farm, but we managed to kill their carry, and then we won the game.

When ppl try to fountain farm, it is usually to stop the other team from gathering as 5, cause if they spawn all 5 with full HP they may kill the opposing team. So in some cases we just try to keep their numbers lower than 5. Also you can stop fountain farmers in some cases with force staff, pudge hook, dark seer vacuum, etc.

exactly

8e8
02-25-2012, 12:54 AM
I will say my opinion with one example:

I was in a long game, where the enemy team pushed mid raxes, and they got overconfident. They tried to fountain farm, but we managed to kill their carry, and then we won the game.

When ppl try to fountain farm, it is usually to stop the other team from gathering as 5, cause if they spawn all 5 with full HP they may kill the opposing team. So in some cases we just try to keep their numbers lower than 5. Also you can stop fountain farmers in some cases with force staff, pudge hook, dark seer vacuum, etc.
This.

To say that it is a waste of time means that you don't care about winning. Fountain farming will provide the team on the receiving end with a chance to turn the game around, and it has happened many times in my experience. If fountain farming were removed it doesn't mean the game will end any faster. Maybe the enemy team will just wait for you to exit the fountain and kill you anyway without going for your ancient.

No one has posted a legitimate solution to this problem. So either you have fun with it, wait until they get bored and end it, or try to turn the tables on them.

Note: Someone mentioned increasing the AOE of the fog around fountain, but this is already countered with a ward, which can be bought from the enemy store anyway.

Nova
03-01-2012, 08:26 AM
Anyone on the receiving end of fountain farming must have found it at least slightly annoying. It only gets worse, it longer it goes on. While everyone is right in saying that usually yes 99.9%, the game is over, it doesn't matter. That doesn't mean it's not annoying/rude and can be prevented.

cn.white
03-01-2012, 12:56 PM
Maybe they should make the fountain more punishing? The amount of damage the fountain deals looks to me like a wc3 engine limitation.

In my opinion: the fountain should slay any enemy controlled-unit that enters it. This would allow some "post-game" meta-gaming where fountain-farmers can be humiliated as well.
As I see it, there's no reason why fountain farming can't be somewhat fun/challenging for both sides.

dedmau5
03-02-2012, 03:16 AM
My views on Fountain Farming and why there should be a way to prevent it:

1: a fracking time waster! Sure, the game may be "over", but if the team continues to fountain farm, the game will end, not "now" but in five or even ten minutes. How fun is that? Oh yea, I may grab a cup of coffee, but seriously..? Imo better to end the game faster, and then be able to play another game! :)
2: simply bad manners! Fountain farming is like going for Roshan when the opposing team has lost 2 lanes, have one hero disc. and they are all dead. WHat is the point?! ... bad fracking manners.
3: Sure, getting kills is fun, and if the team getting fountain farmed keeps "defending" by rushing out to save the ancient... killem! but to just camp outside the fountain ad wait for your pudge to hook'em or all get force staffs to push them out.... *sigh* That is what makes little school kids getting a gun and start killing people for real... ;)

Ways to counter Fountain Farming:
1: get wards and place outside fountain, to see where pudge will stand and hook u.

How to "upgrade" the fountain area:
1: Simply make it a bit bigger, so that there is an area inside it "out of range" for hooks and vacuum and similar spells.
2: wood up a little area behind the fountain, so one can hide.
3: lock heroes that are "afk" or have disc., so that they do not get affected.

and please... Dont give me any of that "duuuh, go cry somwhere else!!, duuuh, get coffee dude, wawawa"-bullcrap... firstly, it is bad manners. secondly, it is bad manners and lastly, it is bad manners.
I want to help making the game better. That is why I have suggested these things.

i'll stop typing now... :)

JX_Blue
03-24-2012, 08:23 AM
I don't see a point in fountain farming. If they do such things, the game is pretty much over and will end in a few minutes.

Actually, a lot of pub players like to waste time fountain farming you, forcing you to drag out the game for 5-10 more minutes just so they can get more kills. This pisses a lot of people off, as well as turning away newer players from the game. If Valve refuses to implement a surrender function, they should, at the very least, prevent fountain farming like this because it wastes valuable time.

Sophylax
03-28-2012, 11:30 AM
Dota 1 was good with that, you could still fountain farm but not high as it is in Dota 2. Leaver-Locking and behind-fountain area made it balanced for me.

Teboga
03-30-2012, 09:23 AM
Why does this game still doesn't have a forfeit/surrender/concede option??? This would help solve the Fontain Farming problem.

Berra_la
03-30-2012, 12:22 PM
I don't need to be fountain farmed to refill my cup of tea, I can do that when I'm waiting 10 min in the game queue.

Seriously though, I don't see how "you can turn a game around once every blue moon due to stupid enemies" is an argument at all. There are plenty of good ideas on how to address this problem, many mentioned here already. Take a minute to actually read the thread before you call that no good suggestions have been made.

- Increase the depth of the fountain while increasing the fountain range to cover the new area.
- Make the fountain meaner: Increase the damage / travel time of the fountain projectiles / split shot / ignore armor and immunities for example.
- Make the fountain an elevated position or add LOS blockers like Roshan's pit.
(- Allow teams to vote for forfeit, would be by far the best solution. But from what I've read, Ice opposes this heavily. Maybe he's a fountain farmer / prolonger himself.)


Edit: I know all games where fountain farming occurs isn't necessarily over. But the vast majority are. It simply wasted everyones time most of the time. I never help a teammate who dives for kills. I'll stay at the throne while trash talking my own team while they die. I've even been allowed by the enemy team to take down the throne 1v5 because my team died while I watched, doing nothing except all-chatting, as Omniknight (yes, that game was very over).

Managor
03-30-2012, 12:48 PM
I have a splendid idea the devs could use with the fountain: Make it uphill.

The enemy will have no vision of you. You can still dive in as usual, could score a couple of skills but it'll be slightly harder since don't have vision of them i.e. someone has to already be in the fountain before you can target your skills.

What do you guys think?

Edit: Berra_la already said it I guess.

Berra_la
03-30-2012, 12:58 PM
...and I stole it from even earlier in the thread. :-p

4evra
03-30-2012, 02:24 PM
well,vision of fountain area is not needed for fountain farming.
enemies arent rushing in to kill them.

Fountain farming comes down to pudge's hook,vacuum,maybe some force staff uses.
Anyway,most of the fountain farming has nothing to do with vision of the fountain,since they use spells to drag u out of fountains area,and then kill u.


sides that are acting a fance to a fountain should be made that way so spells cant go through them.
That way,only way to fountain farm would be through that passage in the mid of it.
So,if u dont want to get killed,u just move to a side,behind a "wall",and ur safe.And enemies have to come through mid(which is in fountains att range) to get u.

NinoDoko
04-01-2012, 02:22 AM
Well, something definitely should be done about this. Imo making the fountain stronger and adding the forest thingie (or any kind of area) behind the fountain would work wonders.

KrankItVZ
04-15-2012, 10:21 AM
Actually I do want the trees back. Me and my friends did a complete 180 and turned around a losing match like a boss and won in dota1. Its possible to do so because even during base rape stage its possible to pick off the heroes one by one if they do not group up. I played Naga and went from a battlefury and phase to 3 battlefury phase yasha and turned over the whole game. And no it was not even close to a draw and we actually had to break all mid towers to reach (yea we sorta failed at first).

Crazy Dave
04-15-2012, 04:19 PM
I suppose that if they make the fountain uphill and, therefore, block line of sight, this would severely hurt people trying to farm fountain. Now, the way to get around that would be to make the fountain nastier to whomever tried to get in, and therefore get line of sight for force staffs, hooks, etc. Make its projectiles deal more damage, so that even the tankiest of tanks died within ten seconds (not an exact amount of time, just my random number), and make it go through invulnerability spells, like those of Dazzle grave and Omni ult.

Another thing they could do is have fountain projectiles ignore armor. That would put the hurt on them.

For those of you who recognize that this post was too long, I have three major points:
1) Prevent Vision in the fountain, unless you're already in the fountain.
2) Make the fountain deal more damage, however you'd like to do that.
3) Implement Concede. Just do it.

TheWilder
04-15-2012, 04:22 PM
Yeah I agree. Fountain farming is stupid, whenever I am in a team that is doing this I try to push ASAP

HMAN911
04-15-2012, 04:31 PM
Fountain 'farming' needs to stay in the game.

Teboga
04-16-2012, 05:51 AM
3) Implement Concede. Just do it.

So much of this...

Seeder
04-16-2012, 06:14 AM
Anything that prevents Fountain Farming. Its bad being on both sides of the story and I usually just try to kill the Ancient.

simplysh
04-17-2012, 05:45 AM
3) Implement Concede. Just do it.
So much of this...

So much of that and you won't play a game longer than 15 min. Concede encourages people to give up. Might as well have a "I'm a loser" option.

sQuare
04-17-2012, 12:37 PM
Actually, a lot of the stuff used to fountain farm with was removed, such as CM freezing the fountain... Sniper killing the fountain...

If you are getting fountain farmed, then probably the game is over, what does it matter if you die ?

Stats are important, I don't want to be killed, ruin my KD and being called a noob because of that.
Of course I'm being sarcastic but that was the only reason a person would complain about fountain farming.

delfinus
04-17-2012, 11:51 PM
Is it hard to dodge the hook? Its a great opportunity to practice this skill of yours.

flazeroth4th
04-18-2012, 11:40 AM
There is no such thing as KDR, if you're worrying about KDR you shouldn't be playing Dota2, it's all whether you're winning or losing your ancient. If you can't defend your ancient, and get raped in fountain it means that u need to try harder next game. I hate when most people play just to get the most kill, this is not CS or whatever where you're on top when you kill a lot, and then losing the game because of no one wants to work together as a team. KDR is meaningless, Win Loss Ratio however, mean something.

Berra_la
04-18-2012, 04:32 PM
Half of the posters in this thread have never lost a game or enjoys waiting for a game to end after it is already settled. 2, 3, 4, 5, whatever minutes not be much, but any amount is too much. I never participate in fountain farming, hit the throne and if possible make sure my team dies while being dicks.

Crazystoner
04-19-2012, 07:36 AM
to bad you cant kill the fountain tho :'(

AndR
05-01-2012, 05:47 AM
Another example of why this is extremely annoying:
Match id 13909937
Our invoker left very early, enemy furion built ethblade + dagon5 and started fountain farming the invoker (tp near fountain, 1shot invoker, tp scroll out). We won the game anyway, but this extremely annoying behaviour should not be possible. Either allow us to lock heroes, or redesign fountain so that there exist safe spots where one can hide from griefers.

Lord_Talron
05-01-2012, 10:23 PM
i agree that it should be a bit easier to hide at the fountain. right now you're just sitting ducks

KaktusStechus
05-02-2012, 11:33 AM
yep, that forest was my favorite place when me and my team were losing, and fog of war doesnt really help against pudge
but i guess they wont change the map anymore
but a forfeit function and lock heroes would be much appreciated

Zexesk
06-22-2012, 06:34 PM
well if the game is over you can go somewhere far of the fountain, every hero has a blink, invis or something and if its not the case u can sell all your items and get a force staff or lothar's, and then get lost in the forest or something.

im not against it, the backyard wood was nice in hon to avoid this, but also can be a bad thing, long range heros can fountain farm from behind lol, also its pretty fun to force staff my alies while are in the entrance or near the sides of the fountain and then watch them getting mad.

nicoman
06-26-2012, 08:56 AM
People act like fountain farming is a huge problem that makes games take forever, or obnoxiously longer. In reality that is not the case, I have never been fountain farmed for longer than one minute or a little longer. I would say the majority of the time when fountain farming occurs the respawn time is upwards of 60 seconds because you are level 15 or higher by that point in the game. Not many people wait around for a minute just to try and snag a few kills. Everyone is over exaggerating and glorifying the issue.

Tl;dr Fountain farming is not nearly as big a problem as this thread seems to make it out to be. In fact it is not a problem, it is part of the game. Everyone has partaken in fountain farming, and everyone has been fountain farmed. However the game is rarely extended more than one minute because of it.

gergeux
06-26-2012, 09:11 AM
T-up this can be (and is) used to abuse the hero rating system.

Which, by the way, does nothing at all.

Meerkitty
06-29-2012, 09:45 AM
I agree that there should be some way or some corner that would guarantee safety against fountain farming.

Fountain farming shouldn't be 'removed' from the game or be made entirely impossible. Whether you like it or not (I personally do not), it is a part of DotA. I'll admit that when I just crushed the enemy team (and pushed down 1-2 sets of rax) I do sometimes enjoy getting those 1-2 kills under the fountain after which I'll just go finish and kill the throne. I don't really find it annoying if the enemy team does this either.

The annoying part starts if the enemy team happens to consists of 4-5 immature players that continue farming for 5-10 minutes after I've politely said 'gg wp' 5 times asked them to finish the game ('pls, pretty pls'). The worst part of those situations is that those kind of players seem to enjoy or crave fountain farming so much, that they start doing it after (sometimes not even) destroying 1 set of rax on a sidelane (and 'those kind of players' also almost always happen to be Pudge players, funny coincident ^^). This results in a situation where the game IS most likely over, but it can take more then 10 minutes before the super creeps from 1 sidelane will actually destroy the throne and/or other raxes.

Without some way 'motivate' the enemy players to halt the fountain farming and go finish the game, this is undeniably unhealthy for the game as it can be very demotivating (especially newer players) Loads of solutions have allready been brought up in this thread and I'm not gonna repeat them all. My personally favorite would be to make the fountain area bigger so that there is at least 1 small spot where you'll be immune to level 4 pudge hooks (at least 1300 range from any point OUTSIDE the fountain area).

This brings me to my final point, there is a huge difference between 'fountain farming' and 'fountain diving'. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with 'fountain diving'. It is intrinsically a 'high rish, low reward' action. This means that by itself it will be a motivation for the enemies to stop doing it and kill the throne. 'Fountain farming' however, with e.g. Pudge hooks or Ethereal Blade + Dagon (tinkers), etc is 'low risk, low reward'. This is why increasing the fountain area is my favorite solution; It provides a refuge against excessive fountain farming, while still allowing fountain diving without making it 'exponentially' harder.

GIGABIT
06-30-2012, 04:18 PM
just implement concede/forfeit alrdy! this solves everything.
as said if pudge can foutain farm then the game is over and u should just cc asap.

This. I don't understand why there is no concede option.

Anaslex
06-30-2012, 04:45 PM
cc function would solve this to a certain extend but I think they are still thinking a lot about the timer on it and amount of votes to pass etc. . . imo they should implement it at 25 mins and wait for feedback ;P

Apolladan
07-04-2012, 08:21 PM
When you're getting fountain farmed by a pudge you need to move to short lane trees and hide there, they won't find you and the game will be over.

Zedek
07-16-2012, 09:00 AM
Actually... I like the fountain farm... even when it's my team being farmed.

It's just a fun last thing to do in a game that is already over. I enjoy trying to avoid Pudge hooks etc. If I die, it really doesn't matter, the game was over. I know it's definitely fun when you're the one doing the farming. People who don't like it are just too sensitive to a game they've already lost.

Amraa
07-17-2012, 07:47 AM
I actually won a game once while the enemy was trying to destroy our fountain, quickly pushed 1 lane, got the rest on my own, by that time they got killed in the fountain and got mega creeped. I think the fountain range should be decreased a bit, its about 950 or something. Those trees behind the fountain don't make a big difference. and make the fountain vulnerable for the lulz.

p1n9v1n
07-17-2012, 07:55 AM
Like farm when totally dominating on enemies.

Skyl3lazer
07-17-2012, 09:56 PM
the best part of ending a game, is the fountain farm.


as said before, if pudge comes to your base to hook you, the game is pretty much over :) and that is a part of dota... it is up to players to decide how much will they humiliate their opponents.


While I dont know if I agree with changing the map or whatever, this is a stupid fucking opinion to have.

DamageInq
07-25-2012, 08:34 AM
Give the fountain a 'hook' ability to turn the end-game fountain farming into a mini game.

TBH this is actually an important topic and people are taking it lightly. You see fountain diving even in competitive games, and the divers don't always win. The fountain 'tower' is made to give the defending team a safe point to go to at any point of the game. Later in the game this damage in minimal. The fountain is barely large enough to escape a chain frost, and the same size as a lot of big AoE ults. It's smaller than in DotA 1, but I'm not sure if this is more of a balance discussion than a dota 1 to dota 2 concern.

Overall it's something that Valve should take into consideration.

Mr.Evo
07-25-2012, 08:43 AM
This. I don't understand why there is no concede option.

Join Date July 2012, might be the reason you haven't read the stickies yet. Do and you'll probably understand.

OT: I usually get a tp ,smoke and farm their jungle; obviously only if the raxes are down, megacreeps are entering our base and enemies all got 30k+ advantage in gold/exp.
Sometimes I don't care then, stay in base and grab a drink meanwhile :)

JX_Blue
08-19-2012, 03:03 AM
If there are such trees in DotA 1 and no one complains about it there why not implement it in DotA 2?

If there's no surrender/concede it would be nice to at least have a place to hide to force your enemies to end (cuz they can't fountain farm you anymore).

Nolf
08-27-2012, 06:13 AM
Hahah, ego trippin fountain farm. I guess if you are 10y old kid you like it.

All what is needed is to make the fountain area more like Dota 1, where you can cut down trees behind fountain to find a safer place.

moizeus
08-29-2012, 07:50 PM
just implement concede/forfeit alrdy! this solves everything.
as said if pudge can foutain farm then the game is over and u should just cc asap.
I agree. Sometimes it get annoying knowing you lost the game, and waiting for the team to finish the game so you don't get a abandonment.

Kusariyaro
09-05-2012, 05:48 AM
We need surrender/concede vote;
Fountain farming is harmless in DotA2, unlike fountain grief in HoN where a team of 5 people would storm fountain and farm kills cus K:D-A is being tracked (which makes people start flaming before the match even begins)
Imo, as most of the people posted, when you get into fountain farm, it means game is over :D

sm3g
09-16-2012, 08:46 PM
I honestly don't really care much for fountain farm, I understand why it can be annoying, but meh, not annoying enough for me to stop playing. All these people saying add in a concede option, I love this idea (I did play LoL between Dota 1 and Dota 2) however you gotta be cautious with this kind of thing, people like to give up easily when they shouldn't and will quite often result in your wasting 20 minutes of your life just to have your team mates vote to surrender when you could have probably still won (just because they are horribly out killing you in fights doesn't mean you will lose...). If they do add a concede option there would need to be a lot of thought gone into it so it only gets used in the right circumstances.

Seriously though, fountain farm, so much QQ over such a little thing...

Caesar555
09-17-2012, 06:33 AM
I agree that there should be some way or some corner that would guarantee safety against fountain farming.

Fountain farming shouldn't be 'removed' from the game or be made entirely impossible. Whether you like it or not (I personally do not), it is a part of DotA. I'll admit that when I just crushed the enemy team (and pushed down 1-2 sets of rax) I do sometimes enjoy getting those 1-2 kills under the fountain after which I'll just go finish and kill the throne. I don't really find it annoying if the enemy team does this either.

The annoying part starts if the enemy team happens to consists of 4-5 immature players that continue farming for 5-10 minutes after I've politely said 'gg wp' 5 times asked them to finish the game ('pls, pretty pls'). The worst part of those situations is that those kind of players seem to enjoy or crave fountain farming so much, that they start doing it after (sometimes not even) destroying 1 set of rax on a sidelane (and 'those kind of players' also almost always happen to be Pudge players, funny coincident ^^). This results in a situation where the game IS most likely over, but it can take more then 10 minutes before the super creeps from 1 sidelane will actually destroy the throne and/or other raxes.

Without some way 'motivate' the enemy players to halt the fountain farming and go finish the game, this is undeniably unhealthy for the game as it can be very demotivating (especially newer players) Loads of solutions have allready been brought up in this thread and I'm not gonna repeat them all. My personally favorite would be to make the fountain area bigger so that there is at least 1 small spot where you'll be immune to level 4 pudge hooks (at least 1300 range from any point OUTSIDE the fountain area).

This brings me to my final point, there is a huge difference between 'fountain farming' and 'fountain diving'. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with 'fountain diving'. It is intrinsically a 'high rish, low reward' action. This means that by itself it will be a motivation for the enemies to stop doing it and kill the throne. 'Fountain farming' however, with e.g. Pudge hooks or Ethereal Blade + Dagon (tinkers), etc is 'low risk, low reward'. This is why increasing the fountain area is my favorite solution; It provides a refuge against excessive fountain farming, while still allowing fountain diving without making it 'exponentially' harder.
+1

I report everyone going camping instead of finishing. No matter the team. ;D
In dota 1 I had my bot count kills from basecamping as deaths. Good old times...

Timelimit
09-17-2012, 09:19 AM
If all 5 players on a team leave, it's the equivalent of conceding. There you go, now shut up about concede because it's stupid and does way more harm than good.

There are many suggestions to prevent fountain farming that prevent fountain farming as much as concede, without the con of 4 idiots conceding because someone fed first blood (this happens in LoL and it suuuucks).

JMark1
09-17-2012, 10:05 AM
Buy force staff. Make them dive in. Profit.

Buy tp. TP out of the base and push till they leave your fountain


Not optimal solutions, but it's what we have for now :)

spektor
09-17-2012, 10:23 AM
If all 5 players on a team leave, it's the equivalent of conceding. There you go, now shut up about concede because it's stupid and does way more harm than good.
Then someone decides that he wants to troll and four people get an abandon. Now stop telling people to shut up.

Wiener
09-17-2012, 11:12 PM
Then someone decides that he wants to troll and four people get an abandon. Now stop telling people to shut up.

Only one person gets an abandon. Thought I'd stop in and say it. Also, you too should stop arguing and telling each other to shut up. Thanks.

CvP
09-18-2012, 02:47 AM
This will only encourage more afk during ancient push which is equivalent to concede.
The area behind fountain in dota1 does not really prevent fountain farming much. If valve wanted this "aspect" to be in game, they'd have done this long ago.