PDA

View Full Version : I would pay $50 to disable cosmetic items



TedAjax
06-09-2012, 06:47 AM
OK so here's the thing. I'm not a fan of cosmetic items because I dislike the variation in hero design that comes from it. I'm especially not a fan of community made cosmetic items because all too often people make things that are completely bad and if the voting on cosmetics over the past week is any indicator lots of people like these bad things. And you know what, that's OK. People can want to have some mecha broodmother or whatever other dumb concepts they can come up with but I don't want to have to look at it. I also dislike the way cosmetics are effecting the looks of some heroes too much so that their silhouettes are being affected making hero identification not as reliable. This is the same problem TF2 ended up having and a reason why I stopped playing TF2.

Of course people are going to say "Well just don't buy it." Well OK I won't, in fact I will never buy any cosmetic items but that doesn't change the fact that other people are still going to buy them, or unlock them, and then use them in a game that I'm in and ultimately I'm going to have to look at them. I really would like the option to disable cosmetic items and I understand that ultimately that could cost Valve money and I don't want to do that. They've worked hard they obviously have to monetize the game and I am not against paying for it. I really would like to be able to purchase the option to disable cosmetic items. This way everyone wins. The people who buy cosmetics still can look at their cosmetics and know that the majority of other players can probably still see them, Valve gets some money from me that they otherwise would not get, and I don't have to look at everyone's dumb items.

Chainyk
06-09-2012, 06:49 AM
not gonna happen

1337_n00b
06-09-2012, 06:49 AM
Valve still have the last word on what gets inside; also, not all of the items that are in the schema are going to make it into the game. What I could agree with is the difference in hero designs, personally I got used to the heroes as they have been for this whole time. But, as far as the things are going, I'm not seeing any dumb items in the game.

Though I would probably be on your side - that is, unless there wasn't that Kunkka tricorne in the store.

I've been longing for it for months.

Malvodion
06-09-2012, 06:54 AM
Is it too hard to use the "search" tool? This thread has been made way too many times.

m4rx
06-09-2012, 07:54 AM
OK so here's the thing. I'm not a fan of cosmetic items because I dislike the variation in hero design that comes from it. I'm especially not a fan of community made cosmetic items because all too often people make things that are completely bad and if the voting on cosmetics over the past week is any indicator lots of people like these bad things. And you know what, that's OK. People can want to have some mecha broodmother or whatever other dumb concepts they can come up with but I don't want to have to look at it. I also dislike the way cosmetics are effecting the looks of some heroes too much so that their silhouettes are being affected making hero identification not as reliable. This is the same problem TF2 ended up having and a reason why I stopped playing TF2.

Of course people are going to say "Well just don't buy it." Well OK I won't, in fact I will never buy any cosmetic items but that doesn't change the fact that other people are still going to buy them, or unlock them, and then use them in a game that I'm in and ultimately I'm going to have to look at them. I really would like the option to disable cosmetic items and I understand that ultimately that could cost Valve money and I don't want to do that. They've worked hard they obviously have to monetize the game and I am not against paying for it. I really would like to be able to purchase the option to disable cosmetic items. This way everyone wins. The people who buy cosmetics still can look at their cosmetics and know that the majority of other players can probably still see them, Valve gets some money from me that they otherwise would not get, and I don't have to look at everyone's dumb items.

I think only you stopped player TF2 because minor problem about cosmestic items & free to play genre...
For now i don't have get complain like you from TF2 Pro Players because cosmestic items system never hurt competitive play...

Also for Dota 2, majority people enjoy this game and not doubtful about cosmestic items....

I hope moderators please close this thread because OP not understand about search function....

m4rx
06-09-2012, 07:57 AM
I would pay $100 for Valve to buy keys....

Eejit
06-09-2012, 08:27 AM
How about buying an item to disable cosmetics which only lasts a month at a time?
So Valve get the same kind of continuous income steam that cosmetics themselves provide.
This would also make it so people who REALLY don't like the cosmetics go to the trouble of it, and so those who want to show theirs off to others aren't as deincentivised.

Viperus
06-09-2012, 09:00 AM
I would pay $100 for Valve to buy keys....

Then buy them, you can buy keys for 30€ in Dota store.

m4rx
06-09-2012, 09:49 AM
How about buying an item to disable cosmetics which only lasts a month at a time?
So Valve get the same kind of continuous income steam that cosmetics themselves provide.
This would also make it so people who REALLY don't like the cosmetics go to the trouble of it, and so those who want to show theirs off to others aren't as deincentivised.
Its too useless if anyone buy cosmestic items and keys can't show to other people because have disable cosmestic items option. My largest community don't have problem with cosmestic items system and only about leavers system. So its pointless to add enable/disable cosmestic items option.

scubasteve
06-09-2012, 10:59 AM
It really hurts my gameplay experience too, but the majority of people like the odd looking cosmetic stuff. They're not gonna let you disable anything so you'll just have to get used to it.

I just wish I could see the heroes that Valve made. Not the goofy looking fan-made ones.

Dariath
06-09-2012, 02:21 PM
I just wish I could see the heroes that Valve made. Not the goofy looking fan-made ones.

Valve okays every item that comes in. Think of it as Valve endorsed. You're never gonna be able to disable custom content. The people that spent a lot of money will be very pissed. And unfortunately for you, companies cater to a paying customer over a non-paying customer.

TedAjax
06-09-2012, 04:32 PM
Valve okays every item that comes in. Think of it as Valve endorsed. You're never gonna be able to disable custom content. The people that spent a lot of money will be very pissed. And unfortunately for you, companies cater to a paying customer over a non-paying customer.

That's the whole point of paying for the option.

HODOR
06-09-2012, 05:59 PM
The amount of money they would get from the handful of people with sticks up their asses that would actually pay not to look at cosmetics

IS SOOOOO MUCH SMALLER

than the amount of money they get from people buying items and being able to show them.


This won't happen, get over it. It makes absolutely no difference.

Slaved
06-10-2012, 12:06 PM
Just leave the cosmetics permanently on matchmaking, that's where majority will play. Then the majority is happy as well.

Allow custom servers / leagues to offer this option. These things are accessable on premium account or whatever. We had this kind of stuff consisting ~50-100 people or so in Dota, and I believe we would prefer to keep the community in Dota 2 as well.

I'm going to script it out either way, would be nice to have a more polished option for this.

Spr09
06-10-2012, 01:48 PM
I think only you stopped player TF2 because minor problem about cosmestic items & free to play genre...
For now i don't have get complain like you from TF2 Pro Players because cosmestic items system never hurt competitive play...

Also for Dota 2, majority people enjoy this game and not doubtful about cosmestic items....

I hope moderators please close this thread because OP not understand about search function....

1) this is the dota forums
2) tf2 was ruined by f2p, you can buy game changing items and do hurt the game
3)line 2 makes no sense, idk what you're trying to say there.

Frost
06-10-2012, 07:31 PM
That's the whole point of paying for the option.

I would pay an additional 50$ To force people that paid 50$ to see my cosmetics.

/dealwithit

Van!
06-10-2012, 09:28 PM
I find it quite amusing how people constantly point to TF2 as an example of how cosmetic items ruin games - they are goofy and disturb the character design. However, they fail to realise that TF2 is a game that Valve never took seriously. It's intended as a comedic game, light-hearted, ridiculous and goofy. Using TF2 as an example weakens the 'disable cosmetics' argument because it simply isn't intended to be serious. That being said, for the small pool of wacky characters in DOTA2, there will clearly be some silly items - e.g Pudge, Storm Spirit, Alchemist - but silly items for those heroes remains in character, as they were wacky by design. Valve aren't idiots. They obviously understand the importance of maintaining the atmosphere and visual integrity of DOTA2 - the Steam Workshop is only a community based pool of assets for Valve to implement at their own discretion.

If you honestly think it's difficult to spot (for example) Tidehunter because he drags a naval mine instead of a half eaten fish, I am sorry to say, you probably have a mental deficiency. I hate resorting to rather personal insults, but the fact is there are only 10 heroes at any one time in game - each and every one of those heroes are very, very different from each other. They have different postures, attack animations, sizes, ability effects, voice acting, dialogue and gameplay roles. All those things distinguish one hero from another in a way that you don't even have to click on them to read their name or take a close look at. Silhouettes are not the only thing which enable a person to distinguish one hero from another. To refer to the TF2 example - so there's a pyro and a scout both wearing the towering pillar of hats. However, you are never going to mistake a small, double jumping, scattergun wielding annoying kid with the stockier and crazier pyro spewing visually messy flames everywhere.

I doubt there will be a payment option to disable cosmetics - it's something that although it might have a reasonable decision behind, it is often perceived as a greedy money grabbing scheme - in this instance, this option allows Valve to put in more extreme and goofy cosmetic items because the people who don't like it can pay to remove it, but then people might theorize that deliberately stupid and ruinous cosmetics are implemented to push people to shell out cash to disable the cosmetics.

This isn't really directed at a particular person/point/argument, just a general response to the general arguments of disabling cosmetics.

Eejit
06-11-2012, 05:27 AM
Its too useless if anyone buy cosmestic items and keys can't show to other people because have disable cosmestic items option. My largest community don't have problem with cosmestic items system and only about leavers system. So its pointless to add enable/disable cosmestic items option.
Yeah, but no.
Only the most insane hardcore minority would actually pay monthly to disable cosmetic items so it wouldn't put people off buying much, while simultaneously helping to shut up those clamouring for the option and providing Valve revenue from those who otherwise would avoid the Store.

beinbliss
06-11-2012, 06:24 AM
they could sell an item for 50$ which disables cosmetics for a buyer.

Valium
06-11-2012, 06:50 AM
I would pay an additional 50$ To force people that paid 50$ to see my cosmetics.

/dealwithit

Why are you so sadistic... Profit comes, Valve should delivered. More options = better.

m4rx
06-11-2012, 07:44 AM
1) this is the dota forums
2) tf2 was ruined by f2p, you can buy game changing items and do hurt the game
3)line 2 makes no sense, idk what you're trying to say there.

Your arguments invalid because TF2 still have competitive play although become F2P. If you don't believe please check this link (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1360) and start new thread about "F2P Hurt the Game".

Also you are not genius man like Gabe Newell

Yeah, but no.
Only the most insane hardcore minority would actually pay monthly to disable cosmetic items so it wouldn't put people off buying much, while simultaneously helping to shut up those clamouring for the option and providing Valve revenue from those who otherwise would avoid the Store.
Please don't be elitists people, Dota 2 not only for most insane hardcore minority but for all audiences...Also about pay monthly to disable cosmetic items its not best solution and not everybody will agree about pay monthly....
If you hate cosmestic items please quit play dota 2 with soon give me your items.....
Are you understand the feedback in this forum only acceptable from majority not from minority only problem with gameplay bugs???
Also this thread similarly like this link: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=37965&page=21

Eejit
06-11-2012, 08:40 AM
Please don't be elitists people, Dota 2 not only for most insane hardcore minority but for all audiences...Also about pay monthly to disable cosmetic items its not best solution and not everybody will agree about pay monthly....
If you hate cosmestic items please quit play dota 2 with soon give me your items.....
Are you understand the feedback in this forum only acceptable from majority not from minority only problem with gameplay bugs???
Also this thread similarly like this link: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=37965&page=21

Please read posts more carefully before replying. I am saying that only those who are hardcore anti-cosmetics would pay monthly. It would not be a big part of the population.
Of course not everyone who dislikes cosmetics would do it, that's my point.

I like cosmetic items, and I don't want to see a one-off payment option available to disable them. I'd be fine with there being a subscription-like option to turn them off however because as I've said it will be used by far fewer people and Valve could make good money from it.

Slaved
06-11-2012, 09:43 AM
Monthly fee = everyone will just end up using scripts instead. They are clientside only and prevent the rendering of cosmetic items.

What many people have wanted is more of an oldschool retail option for the game. I know that I'd want custom communities that could be handled like they should be handled in 2012. We shouldn't need IRC or another website for organizing games in an inhouse. People played WC3 for a long time under this kind of model, and now many people are seeing the mod they supported and played being turned into a commercial behemoth where communities are locked out. Those players who play for money are naturally thanking for the money-making opportunities and the net worth of changes is worth it (new GFX, possibilities for a better platform etc.) but it still could be much, much better.

Self-moddable main menu, disabling shop / learn tabs, and leaving me with what I want on the "premium retail version" would pretty much be all cool for me. Everyone could just go on and continue on buying cosmetics, nobody would be able to disable the cosmetics in matchmaking - the place which matters the most, for the most - and we'd be one happy village.

I find cosmetics distracting, I had hard time figuring whether if the blob of fur was their VS or Drow in one game, until I clicked on it. Wouldn't be nice to have a moment like that when something comes just around the corner and you don't really have time to click on heroes and stuff. Some might change animations or the visibility (which sucks balls bigtime) and some simply add unnecessary amount of distracting details (or maybe even animations).

TF2 goes by as an okayish casual games but even there you have people who fart and bleed serpentine if you aren't using anti-cosmetic scripts. That is what Dota 2 could become if enough time is given. Promises on "maintaining this and that" aren't worth much, especially since I'd like to use a script already.

DeathByVoid
06-11-2012, 09:55 AM
Though maybe not $50, I would also pay for this option.
I think the current set of cosmetic items are okay, though if it goes anywhere near the level TF2 has it may even bug me enough to quit. (God I hope not.)
Over-the-top cosmetic items completely killed TF2 for me, but since I've been playing DotA for years and love Dota 2, my tolerance may be slightly higher.

Eejit
06-11-2012, 10:09 AM
Monthly fee = everyone will just end up using scripts instead. They are clientside only and prevent the rendering of cosmetic items.


And the scripts work for as long as Valve allow them to work.

KewBeastie
06-11-2012, 10:12 AM
I totally back this, even though I'm a fan of some of the customizations. All these people saying OP is stupid - what. Just... what. If someone doesn't like what their hero looks like currently, they can pay £3 and make their hero look different. However, people who don't like the cosmetics then have to look at it, and can't turn them off. I mean, that Cowboy Ursa looks retarded, plain and simple. Why would it be so out of the question to let people PAY to not see the items?

Slaved
06-11-2012, 01:57 PM
And the scripts work for as long as Valve allow them to work.

And it takes an hour after a patch and they work again.

Lanttu
06-11-2012, 02:35 PM
I don't have anything against cosmetics (at least yet) but I don't see a single reason why this shouldn't be implented. I'd be willing to guess vast majority are ok with cosmetic stuff but small portion really hate them. Some of them might go as extreme as quitting the game completely if they find cosmetics too irritating. Needless to say, those people will never ever spend a single dime on those and thus are useless for Valve financially. Giving an option to remove all redudnant cosmetics for a small fee would both make consumers happy and bring some revenue for Valve they wouldn't have got otherwise.

hus3in
06-11-2012, 02:45 PM
i bet this guy is hired by any other company to troll the community

Ph3n0m
06-11-2012, 02:53 PM
T-DOWN so hard. This is just a joke, why would people buy the skins then? Get used to it or quit Dota, the skins are decent and don't deflect so nP.

Clan
06-11-2012, 02:56 PM
I LOVE Valve's model to earn money in dota2. Game becomes affordable to anyone in the world, to those who can't spend $50 bucks to buy the game or disable cosmetics.
And the company gets paid, and can pay salaries to the awesome developers who made the game even available, and fun to play with and without cosmetics.

careboy
06-11-2012, 03:34 PM
i would pay 60 which is an actual game price. I am willing to turn this game into a B2P instead of F2P for myself just so that i don't see those items. Cosmetics look retarded at best.

Eejit
06-12-2012, 01:20 AM
And it takes an hour after a patch and they work again.

If Valve really didn't want them used they could start VAC banning...

Slaved
06-12-2012, 10:18 AM
It's rather questionable to sniff for client-side only files which don't really have any effect on the server side. UAC would go crazy. I wouldn't doubt that it does break a law or two in this country, and obviously Valve has to go by them as they're offering the service to us as well. All the scripts do is preventing the items from being rendered.

VAC-banning would be a rather extreme direction to take anyway. And I'd simply move away from my main account, and start playing on another. The game's going to be free to play anyway.

scubasteve
06-12-2012, 05:58 PM
I just don't like how a lot of the items seem unnatural on the heroes. The other day I saw Tide with spikes on his back and it kinda looked like they were just floating there when he walked around. There was also a Nature's Prophet playing with some vomit-colored cloak that didn't look right at all.

I'd be really happy if there was a way to just disable everything. It couldn't be that hard to add it in the options menu.

m4rx
06-12-2012, 09:07 PM
I just don't like how a lot of the items seem unnatural on the heroes. The other day I saw Tide with spikes on his back and it kinda looked like they were just floating there when he walked around. There was also a Nature's Prophet playing with some vomit-colored cloak that didn't look right at all.

I'd be really happy if there was a way to just disable everything. It couldn't be that hard to add it in the options menu. its pointless to buy treasure keys & buy new cosmestic items because can't show to other players if have disable cosmestic items option. I think its only few people want disable option not majority people. You should say thankful to valve to make this dota 2 become F2P than B2P.

Gyre
06-12-2012, 09:41 PM
I would also like to see a disable cosmetics option, even if it is expensive. On the other hand, people have been asking for this forever in TF2, so I doubt anything will come of it.


its pointless to buy treasure keys & buy new cosmestic items because can't show to other players if have disable cosmestic items option. I think its only few people want disable option not majority people. You should say thankful to valve to make this dota 2 become F2P than B2P.

While I am thrilled that Valve made a great game, I am actually disappointed with F2P compared to B2P. I know that F2P is the "best" model economically for companies, so I understand why they use it, but I personally dislike the model, the people it attracts, how it makes people act, and the cosmetic/enhancement shops that most F2Ps turn to for revenue. Sure, most people may like it and it may be best for companies, but that doesn't mean I need to thank them for doing something I dislike. I'd rather pay extra for the game than have it F2P (games at $60 are underpriced in general, hence the rise of day-1 DLC and other shit like that).

BattledOne
06-13-2012, 09:20 AM
You want to say that the fact that the shape of my Kunkka's sword makes it hard for you to identify him?

Slaved
06-13-2012, 09:47 AM
A bigger sword can hide the nuances you take for yourself to recognize when someone is casting something or starting his attack animation. Maybe it won't necessarily make it harder to recognize a hero, but for me at least it's both annoying and distractive.

Then there is the visual stuff not corresponding what stuff really is, basic courier looks hella lot more fragile than the alternate ones. In dota it went by ok because they weren't really that different in the looks (like, snail, mini pudge, chicken, you could easily think of them having low HP), and it was the only thing you could "dress".

H3ndriX
06-13-2012, 09:53 AM
I would too but there are already a few threads about this.

nicoman
06-13-2012, 10:08 AM
its pointless to buy treasure keys & buy new cosmestic items because can't show to other players if have disable cosmestic items option. I think its only few people want disable option not majority people. You should say thankful to valve to make this dota 2 become F2P than B2P.

You should be buying items for yourself. If your goal in buying items is so that other people are forced to see it, then it is almost a form of trolling. People enjoy spending money on cosmetics and dressing up their heroes, and that is fine. However an argument saying that people who don't like cosmetics should be forced to see them because people are spending money is ridiculous. Especially if there is an option to pay to disable them, because then people are spending money as well. Also you shouldn't tell people to be thankful that the game is F2P instead of B2P, because as Gyre pointed out some people prefer B2P (read his post, very well explained).

Also your signature is false, DotA 1 is not F2P. You had to buy RoC and The Frozen Throne or you could not play. Main concern with F2P is multiple accounts.

Techno-Grub
06-13-2012, 10:22 AM
I just hope there won't be too many cosmetics too soon.

Some Heroes have already 4 setfuls of items, while some have none. Please put some planning into this, like Heroes getting cosmetics evenly.

Too many cosmetics and too soon! That's my concern.

graffix
06-13-2012, 11:56 AM
There should be an option to disable the cosmetics.

BearManPig
06-13-2012, 12:12 PM
There should be an option to disable the cosmetics +1. I saw tide with a shark skin over his head. I mean wtf he is huge now but with that he was to big...

Phoenixclaw
06-13-2012, 12:13 PM
some cosmetic changes completely ruin the style of the game. i would pay 50 $ as well to disable it. and i'm 100% serious.

Okynous
06-13-2012, 12:14 PM
There should be an option to disable the cosmetics.

It's not enough they give you this game for free, all heroes unlocked, option to change your nickname anytime you like, and the option to change servers any time you like, lets shit on them for making any sort of a profit for cosmetic items cause they insult your oversensitive sense of style.

This thread needs to close - looking at you BLA.

Frost
06-13-2012, 01:00 PM
You should be buying items for yourself. If your goal in buying items is so that other people are forced to see it, then it is almost a form of trolling. People enjoy spending money on cosmetics and dressing up their heroes, and that is fine. However an argument saying that people who don't like cosmetics should be forced to see them because people are spending money is ridiculous. Especially if there is an option to pay to disable them, because then people are spending money as well. Also you shouldn't tell people to be thankful that the game is F2P instead of B2P, because as Gyre pointed out some people prefer B2P (read his post, very well explained).

Also your signature is false, DotA 1 is not F2P. You had to buy RoC and The Frozen Throne or you could not play. Main concern with F2P is multiple accounts.

People don't buy nice clothes for themselves to see. They buy expensive clothes to show off to other people. OMFG IRL PEOPLE ARE TROLLING ME! GOD, I DEMAND AN OPTION TO SEE EVERYONE NAKED IF I PAY MONEY!

Gyre
06-13-2012, 07:08 PM
It's not enough they give you this game for free, all heroes unlocked, option to change your nickname anytime you like, and the option to change servers any time you like, lets shit on them for making any sort of a profit for cosmetic items cause they insult your oversensitive sense of style.

This thread needs to close - looking at you BLA.

Read the earlier post I made about us needing to be thankful to Valve. The attitude that we HAVE to be thankful because the game is F2P is just stupid, as many of us would prefer it otherwise. I explain it in more depth in the other post, but this sort of attitude just needs to stop.

http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=39986&page=4&p=246966&viewfull=1#post246966

I personally am thankful that they made such a great game, but then again, I pay them money all the time to make and sell games through Steam, which my preferred method of buying games, partially as a thanks to Valve (this is how I show my thanks). On the other hand, if I dislike something, I, like everyone else, have the right to complain about it, and am in no way "indebted" to Valve to the point where I should just accept everything they do without stating an opinion. They do not have to listen to my opinion on their game, but not doing so may affect where I choose to spend money in the future. Granted, I am a tiny portion of their revenue, but it is up to them to decide exactly what is most profitable in the end. So sure, I may say all this and they could decide to not allow getting rid of cosmetics, but they may also listen and say, "Hey, it seems that people are willing to pay to not see this stuff," and find that they can make more profit by selling this "no cosmetic" option, even if it reduces sales of cosmetic items themselves. And, if their reputation is to be believed, they may even say, "Hey, this makes the game better for some people, so even though it will reduce profits, we will give it away for free," although I seriously doubt this. It is totally up to Valve to decide, but it would be stupid of the community to not let Valve know what they think about the subject, since it is the community that decides how much money to give Valve.



People don't buy nice clothes for themselves to see. They buy expensive clothes to show off to other people. OMFG IRL PEOPLE ARE TROLLING ME! GOD, I DEMAND AN OPTION TO SEE EVERYONE NAKED IF I PAY MONEY!

This analogy fits better if you have the paying people just see everyone wearing generic/non-expensive clothing, not nothing. More importantly, video games are a situation where it would be feasible to allow everyone to see what they like, which is not the case in real life, so this argument is irrelevant. I'm not saying that they definitively should or should not allow this option, although I personally would like it, but I am saying that this is a terrible straw-man that you have set up. Only Valve knows how these options will affect profits, and this is likely to be the deciding factor in whether they implement such a change(even they are likely unsure, as they have never done a no-cosmetic option in a game, to the best of my knowledge).

m4rx
06-13-2012, 09:43 PM
Read the earlier post I made about us needing to be thankful to Valve. The attitude that we HAVE to be thankful because the game is F2P is just stupid, as many of us would prefer it otherwise. I explain it in more depth in the other post, but this sort of attitude just needs to stop.

http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=39986&page=4&p=246966&viewfull=1#post246966

I personally am thankful that they made such a great game, but then again, I pay them money all the time to make and sell games through Steam, which my preferred method of buying games, partially as a thanks to Valve (this is how I show my thanks). On the other hand, if I dislike something, I, like everyone else, have the right to complain about it, and am in no way "indebted" to Valve to the point where I should just accept everything they do without stating an opinion. They do not have to listen to my opinion on their game, but not doing so may affect where I choose to spend money in the future. Granted, I am a tiny portion of their revenue, but it is up to them to decide exactly what is most profitable in the end. So sure, I may say all this and they could decide to not allow getting rid of cosmetics, but they may also listen and say, "Hey, it seems that people are willing to pay to not see this stuff," and find that they can make more profit by selling this "no cosmetic" option, even if it reduces sales of cosmetic items themselves. And, if their reputation is to be believed, they may even say, "Hey, this makes the game better for some people, so even though it will reduce profits, we will give it away for free," although I seriously doubt this. It is totally up to Valve to decide, but it would be stupid of the community to not let Valve know what they think about the subject, since it is the community that decides how much money to give Valve.




This analogy fits better if you have the paying people just see everyone wearing generic/non-expensive clothing, not nothing. More importantly, video games are a situation where it would be feasible to allow everyone to see what they like, which is not the case in real life, so this argument is irrelevant. I'm not saying that they definitively should or should not allow this option, although I personally would like it, but I am saying that this is a terrible straw-man that you have set up. Only Valve knows how these options will affect profits, and this is likely to be the deciding factor in whether they implement such a change(even they are likely unsure, as they have never done a no-cosmetic option in a game, to the best of my knowledge).
So do you want dota 2 become most pirate game of this year with B2P genre?
Not all your opinion would accept by valve because valve want people in the world play dota 2 without any restrictions like turn into B2P...
If you don't like what valve doing for Dota Community, please quit play dota 2 and stop make unreasonable complain because dota 2 is not your owns but belongs to dota community...

I want mods close this thread because some people still trolling out about F2P or B2P after valve made clearly about this game goes to F2P forover...

Gyre
06-13-2012, 10:49 PM
So do you want dota 2 become most pirate game of this year with B2P genre?

1. I never said I wanted Dota2 to be pirated.


Not all your opinion would accept by valve because valve want people in the world play dota 2 without any restrictions like turn into B2P...

2. I understand that Valve does not have to accept my opinion, but, then again, I have the right to express it. Obviously they have decided that F2P will give them bigger profits (or is better for the community if you believe that Valve is the exception to the corporate rule). While they may make more F2P, I do not have to like it, and can still wish that they had chosen another model. I went over this multiple times if you care to read my past two posts in this thread.


If you don't like what valve doing for Dota Community, please quit play dota 2 and stop make unreasonable complain because dota 2 is not your owns but belong to dota community...

3. You are right, I do not like everything that Valve is doing. On the other hand, I love a lot of the things they are doing and respect the work they have put into the game and community. Respect for something does not preclude critique. I can respect their contribution, but still champion a different direction in the areas where I do disagree. My complaints are not unreasonable. I stated that it would be my preference that the game was B2P, but also said that I understood that Valve could make any decision they liked (such as how the game is definitely F2P now). Yes, the game is clearly F2P now, but that does not mean that other opinions are absolutely invalid, nor does it mean that anyone who holds them is trolling. Most of the comments about B2P and F2P are secondary to the more on-topic discussion of whether or not we should be able to pay for cosmetic items. Telling me that I should leave because I disagree is ridiculously close-minded. I belong to the Dota community that you refer, why should I not get to have my say in what happens to the game just like the rest of you?


I want mods close this thread because some people still trolling out about F2P or B2P after valve made clearly about this game goes to F2P forover...


4. You criticize me for talking about F2P vs B2P, but a majority of the post you quoted concerns cosmetics. Yes, I do talk about F2P and B2P, but that was largely a response to other people, including you, saying that we need to automatically not question Valve's decision about cosmetics just because the game is F2P. Just because the game is F2P does not make it, or the company that made it, flawless. Yes, Valve added cosmetics and will likely not disable them in any way, but that does not mean that we shouldn't ask for it if we want it. Maybe if enough of the community wants it, Valve can charge us for it and we can give them the money they miss out on by losing cosmetic sales. Again, this is well-covered in my last two posts. Read them and respond if you want, but stop saying irrelevant things that imply(paraphrasing), "because the game is F2P, you should not be able to criticize any of Valve's decisions." My criticisms of Valve are not flames, not trolls, and not unconsidered. I think Valve is a great company that produces quality games and high-quality services(like Steam). I have thought out my opinions, and while I realize that they may be wrong, they should not be dismissed just because they are opposed to the status quo.

nicoman
06-14-2012, 07:37 AM
Gyre, do not waste your time replying to m4rx. Your very intelligent, thorough, and well thought out points and arguments will fly over this guy’s head. He has a limited grasp of the English language (through no fault of his own) and will not be reasonable. He is a Valve fanatic and will never understand what you are saying even though it completely annihilates every one of his arguments. Just letting you know so you don’t waste more of your time. I know this because I had him post in a thread I started similar to this one. It went nowhere.

Must say your reply was very well said.

pard
06-14-2012, 10:03 AM
Read the earlier post I made about us needing to be thankful to Valve. The attitude that we HAVE to be thankful because the game is F2P is just stupid, as many of us would prefer it otherwise. I explain it in more depth in the other post, but this sort of attitude just needs to stop.

http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=39986&page=4&p=246966&viewfull=1#post246966

I personally am thankful that they made such a great game, but then again, I pay them money all the time to make and sell games through Steam, which my preferred method of buying games, partially as a thanks to Valve (this is how I show my thanks). On the other hand, if I dislike something, I, like everyone else, have the right to complain about it, and am in no way "indebted" to Valve to the point where I should just accept everything they do without stating an opinion. They do not have to listen to my opinion on their game, but not doing so may affect where I choose to spend money in the future. Granted, I am a tiny portion of their revenue, but it is up to them to decide exactly what is most profitable in the end. So sure, I may say all this and they could decide to not allow getting rid of cosmetics, but they may also listen and say, "Hey, it seems that people are willing to pay to not see this stuff," and find that they can make more profit by selling this "no cosmetic" option, even if it reduces sales of cosmetic items themselves. And, if their reputation is to be believed, they may even say, "Hey, this makes the game better for some people, so even though it will reduce profits, we will give it away for free," although I seriously doubt this. It is totally up to Valve to decide, but it would be stupid of the community to not let Valve know what they think about the subject, since it is the community that decides how much money to give Valve.




This analogy fits better if you have the paying people just see everyone wearing generic/non-expensive clothing, not nothing. More importantly, video games are a situation where it would be feasible to allow everyone to see what they like, which is not the case in real life, so this argument is irrelevant. I'm not saying that they definitively should or should not allow this option, although I personally would like it, but I am saying that this is a terrible straw-man that you have set up. Only Valve knows how these options will affect profits, and this is likely to be the deciding factor in whether they implement such a change(even they are likely unsure, as they have never done a no-cosmetic option in a game, to the best of my knowledge).

Very well put, although I don't think the guy you're discussing with has the intellect to understand half your points. When someone has to counterpoint you with "if you don't like it just quit" you should start ignoring them altogether.

The problem with those kids that came to Steam with DOTA2 and think we should be thankful because its F2P is they lack the basic understanding that Steam is an online store and gaming platform and has been long before Valve got their hands into this game.

I spent over $400 on Valve games alone, more $3500 or so on other Companies games through Steam, which Valve allegedly takes a 30% cut of, and yet he thinks because he spent $10 on some stupid hat his opinion is worth more than mine. Valve most likely won't know right away (unless they got some really kick-ass super advanced government-run secret data warehouse) that their decisions on this game have me reconsidering all my future purchases on all the Steam accounts I "finance", which for me is the reason I come here to express my lack of satisfaction with the directions things are currently headed to.

And don't even get me started on the kid making analogies with real life situations. You sure wouldn't mind anyone fucking your girlfriend, as long as you didn't know.

Crazy Dave
06-14-2012, 08:51 PM
No, I'm completely fine with people paying money for the ability to disable cosmetic items.
They should just charge $1000 for this ability. That way, people will stop making idiotic threads like these, and the people who really, really, REALLY hate cosmetic items can get rid of them, albeit with a hefty cost.

(Joke post, joke post-people shouldn't be disabling cosmetic items. People put hard work into making them, and people spent well-earned money buying them.)

pard
06-14-2012, 09:15 PM
No, I'm completely fine with people paying money for the ability to disable cosmetic items.
They should just charge $1000 for this ability. That way, people will stop making idiotic threads like these, and the people who really, really, REALLY hate cosmetic items can get rid of them, albeit with a hefty cost.

(Joke post, joke post-people shouldn't be disabling cosmetic items. People put hard work into making them, and people spent well-earned money buying them.)

I'm really considering taking a week off work to patch cosmetics myself just so I can piss off people like you. Same idiotic opinion that was posted in this thread tons of times, no real point.

reashio
06-14-2012, 09:18 PM
no

Yarito
06-14-2012, 10:10 PM
I would pay $60 to disable your disable cosmetic items

m4rx
06-15-2012, 02:35 AM
1. I never said I wanted Dota2 to be pirated.



2. I understand that Valve does not have to accept my opinion, but, then again, I have the right to express it. Obviously they have decided that F2P will give them bigger profits (or is better for the community if you believe that Valve is the exception to the corporate rule). While they may make more F2P, I do not have to like it, and can still wish that they had chosen another model. I went over this multiple times if you care to read my past two posts in this thread.



3. You are right, I do not like everything that Valve is doing. On the other hand, I love a lot of the things they are doing and respect the work they have put into the game and community. Respect for something does not preclude critique. I can respect their contribution, but still champion a different direction in the areas where I do disagree. My complaints are not unreasonable. I stated that it would be my preference that the game was B2P, but also said that I understood that Valve could make any decision they liked (such as how the game is definitely F2P now). Yes, the game is clearly F2P now, but that does not mean that other opinions are absolutely invalid, nor does it mean that anyone who holds them is trolling. Most of the comments about B2P and F2P are secondary to the more on-topic discussion of whether or not we should be able to pay for cosmetic items. Telling me that I should leave because I disagree is ridiculously close-minded. I belong to the Dota community that you refer, why should I not get to have my say in what happens to the game just like the rest of you?




4. You criticize me for talking about F2P vs B2P, but a majority of the post you quoted concerns cosmetics. Yes, I do talk about F2P and B2P, but that was largely a response to other people, including you, saying that we need to automatically not question Valve's decision about cosmetics just because the game is F2P. Just because the game is F2P does not make it, or the company that made it, flawless. Yes, Valve added cosmetics and will likely not disable them in any way, but that does not mean that we shouldn't ask for it if we want it. Maybe if enough of the community wants it, Valve can charge us for it and we can give them the money they miss out on by losing cosmetic sales. Again, this is well-covered in my last two posts. Read them and respond if you want, but stop saying irrelevant things that imply(paraphrasing), "because the game is F2P, you should not be able to criticize any of Valve's decisions." My criticisms of Valve are not flames, not trolls, and not unconsidered. I think Valve is a great company that produces quality games and high-quality services(like Steam). I have thought out my opinions, and while I realize that they may be wrong, they should not be dismissed just because they are opposed to the status quo.
That's up to you because everyone have perspective different mind and don't forget only valve make a right decision what is best for this game in the future. Don't forget not everyone will buy disable cosmestic items option because make steam workshop become priceless and less population to use steam workshop, slowly will make people bored to play dota 2 and will effect to decrease dota 2 stats........


Gyre, do not waste your time replying to m4rx. Your very intelligent, thorough, and well thought out points and arguments will fly over this guy’s head. He has a limited grasp of the English language (through no fault of his own) and will not be reasonable. He is a Valve fanatic and will never understand what you are saying even though it completely annihilates every one of his arguments. Just letting you know so you don’t waste more of your time. I know this because I had him post in a thread I started similar to this one. It went nowhere.

Must say your reply was very well said.
when I defend my argument that does not mean I am valve fanatic. Maybe you still did not understand what i said. Sometimes your opinions such can not accept reality like Dota 2 turn into F2P. Well that's decision from valve/icefrog not ours because valve/icefrog want dota 2 become not exclusive game only for certain people....

m4rx
06-15-2012, 02:49 AM
Very well put, although I don't think the guy you're discussing with has the intellect to understand half your points. When someone has to counterpoint you with "if you don't like it just quit" you should start ignoring them altogether.

The problem with those kids that came to Steam with DOTA2 and think we should be thankful because its F2P is they lack the basic understanding that Steam is an online store and gaming platform and has been long before Valve got their hands into this game.

I spent over $400 on Valve games alone, more $3500 or so on other Companies games through Steam, which Valve allegedly takes a 30% cut of, and yet he thinks because he spent $10 on some stupid hat his opinion is worth more than mine. Valve most likely won't know right away (unless they got some really kick-ass super advanced government-run secret data warehouse) that their decisions on this game have me reconsidering all my future purchases on all the Steam accounts I "finance", which for me is the reason I come here to express my lack of satisfaction with the directions things are currently headed to.

And don't even get me started on the kid making analogies with real life situations. You sure wouldn't mind anyone fucking your girlfriend, as long as you didn't know.

I think the big problem for most people in the world is "not enough money" and don't have any "credit cards" to buy any original game on steam store like in my country (indonesian) and only certain people can buy any original game. I think piracy for some games is fair happening in this world if developers can't find the best idea to make a video game become acceptable for most people based on the ability of someone to buy it. So i think $2,5 to buy a treasure key is worth for everyone in the world and make people learn to appreciate the masterpieces of valve / IceFrog without make any pirates version like PVPGM Server for Dota 1....

nicoman
06-15-2012, 05:26 AM
I think the big problem for most people in the world is "not enough money" and don't have any "credit cards" to buy any original game on steam store like in my country (indonesian) and only certain people can buy any original game. I think piracy for some games is fair happening in this world if developers can't find the best idea to make a video game become acceptable for most people based on the ability of someone to buy it. So i think $2,5 to buy a treasure key is worth for everyone in the world and make people learn to appreciate the masterpieces of valve / IceFrog without make any pirates version like PVPGM Server for Dota 1....

You wouldn't be able to pirate DOTA 2, you need steam servers to play on, even lobbies use steam servers. If some people went out of their way to make a server base for a pirated version it would not have the infrastructure to support much of anything and it would require a lot of work and maintnance. Who will be paying for that? You have a flawed notion that IceFrog has any say in the commercialisation of the game, he only controls the games content not how it makes money afterwards. Also the reason it is F2P is not because Valve wants it to be accessible to everyone and not exclusive, it's because the F2P model generates more money in the long run because you have more people playing the game, and you remove a set amount any one person can end up spending on the game. You can have one player spend 0$ and another spend over $500 over the course of a couple years. In the end it comes down to potential profit, and F2P has higher profit margins then P2P. If it was the other way around in an alternate universe the game would not be F2P.

Gyre
06-15-2012, 06:25 AM
That's up to you because everyone have perspective different mind and don't forget only valve make a right decision what is best for this game in the future. Don't forget not everyone will buy disable cosmestic items option because make steam workshop become priceless and less population to use steam workshop, slowly will make people bored to play dota 2 and will effect to decrease dota 2 stats........


when I defend my argument that does not mean I am valve fanatic. Maybe you still did not understand what i said. Sometimes your opinions such can not accept reality like Dota 2 turn into F2P. Well that's decision from valve/icefrog not ours because valve/icefrog want dota 2 become not exclusive game only for certain people....

I already agree with or responded to the points you are bringing up. I think there is a language barrier causing most of the problems here.

DeltaMishap
06-15-2012, 10:11 AM
I think Valve should have an option available to every player to disable cosmetic items so that someone such as yourself will see every hero as their original model while other players get to keep their cosmetic items. Its a win-win situation

Fydorian
06-15-2012, 10:16 AM
I think Valve should have an option available to every player to disable cosmetic items so that someone such as yourself will see every hero as their original model while other players get to keep their cosmetic items. Its a win-win situation

A lot of the artificial value Valve creates with the item shop is because of people wanting to show off their items. People want to feel special, even if it's something silly and arbitrary - and some people are willing to pay. Some people are willing to pay a lot. It's the only point of having a rarity system, and it's the only point of having the rarest things drop out of chests (that generate profit like slot machines - VERY lucrative$$). Valve won't take away that for nothing. That's why op is suggesting paying for it; to offset this depreciation in artificial value.

Slaved
06-15-2012, 10:17 AM
You wouldn't be able to pirate DOTA 2, you need steam servers to play on, even lobbies use steam servers. If some people went out of their way to make a server base for a pirated version it would not have the infrastructure to support much of anything and it would require a lot of work and maintnance. Who will be paying for that? You have a flawed notion that IceFrog has any say in the commercialisation of the game, he only controls the games content not how it makes money afterwards. Also the reason it is F2P is not because Valve wants it to be accessible to everyone and not exclusive, it's because the F2P model generates more money in the long run because you have more people playing the game, and you remove a set amount any one person can end up spending on the game. You can have one player spend 0$ and another spend over $500 over the course of a couple years. In the end it comes down to potential profit, and F2P has higher profit margins then P2P. If it was the other way around in an alternate universe the game would not be F2P.

A server that uses Ghost++ kind of a solution (P2P without requiring you to ping home to anything) would offer both playable latency and affordable hosting (since most of the workload is done by the connection of the user instead of the server). Communities do host servers despite of the costs, take a look at BF3 or WC3 Dota.

A game requiring Steam is an online check. Assassin's Creed from ubisoft required an online connection as well... it took a day to remove the check. Even SC2 Single Player was playable offline pretty soon, despite of the game requiring online mode for SP as well. However, only as of recently you've been able to play online or LAN outside of Battle.net. Why is that?

Because for multiplayer, data needs to be held server side. Server side = game requires data the user has no access to. Effective at preventing cheats and piracy. However, by emulating a server, you can bypass this as well. The only difference is that it takes one hell of a long time to get it working, and get it working right. The difference between an online check and constant online requirement is that the former requires nothing but bypassing the check, while the latter requires you to create files that simulate the stuff what happens between the client and the server - in other words, you need to emulate.

If they are going to allow LAN play, data needs to be stored clientside. Then, you can do what Garena, RGC and Dotalicious did in dota, or just use hamachi to play online.

And they're all legal in the countries where the services are hosted. They will use no copyrighted files or data - they create their own data to allow online play.

However, if Valve serves people right, people have no reason to go elsewhere. Legit thing is better, if done right. If people get what they want from Dota 2, there will be no incentive to conjure up huge alternative platforms to play Dota 2 on. Sure, there will be some, but if there is no demand, the alternate servers will probably be like 3 patches behind and it will be harder to find a game as well.

You know why people went buttducks on PS3 when Sony started locking out features and hunting the hackers tinkering around the system? Because Sony gave an incentive for people to hack it even more. Nobody likes to see company bossing on people. Result?

It's copyrighted information. (http://psx-scene.com/forums/f6/geohot-here-your-ps3-root-key-now-hello-world-proof-74255/)