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Ban Rikimaru because of Permanent Invisibility

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  • #31
    Hue. I play this mode a lot and I've said the same thing as Buny did: get good and stop with these stupid excuses why you can't deal with Permanent Invisibility.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by matthe2 View Post

      I want to request another mod for this thread. The current one doesn't play the mode at all and does not understand anything. He is unfit for this position.
      Sure thing.


      I'm not "the mod" for this section. I just post here because I can.

      Also I do play ad, stop making random guesses.


      >leaving heavy nukes in the pool so that the perma invis guy can take it


      So who's fault is that? The spell's or the people playing the mode?
      Please, just call me buny.

      Comment


      • #33
        I don't see why would they remove it, it's not overpowered, it's not broken, not even a little bit.

        As GermanViet pointed out, the cooldown of the first level is way too high to be useful, the skill is inferior in almost every way to Shadow Walk or any other WW spell.


        OP combos have always been possible if you let the opponents pick the skills they want.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Noo View Post
          I don't see why would they remove it, it's not overpowered, it's not broken, not even a little bit.

          As GermanViet pointed out, the cooldown of the first level is way too high to be useful
          This is a perfect example of what I said. Anybody who have played +10 AD games will know how full of bullshit you are. The "coldown" (its actually the fade time, not the cd) in the skill is completetly irrelevant because you are NOT going to break invisibility. It could very well have +30 seconds fade time and it would change nothing.

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          • #35
            I don't know what kind of build you have in mind but if you're not hitting a creep or the enemy at least once every 30s then you're doing something very wrong.

            Plus any semi good team would have sentries in the lane, and you'd be stuck with an invis ability that doesn't even give you 0 collision.
            Last edited by Noo; 10-13-2014, 02:17 PM.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Chuave_1234 View Post
              This is a perfect example of what I said. Anybody who have played +10 AD games will know how full of bullshit you are. The "coldown" (its actually the fade time, not the cd) in the skill is completetly irrelevant because you are NOT going to break invisibility. It could very well have +30 seconds fade time and it would change nothing.
              So you don't break your invis at all? Must be really easy to play against you then. Easiest 80/80 cs in 10 mins.
              Please, just call me buny.

              Comment


              • #37
                After reading some of this argument I agree with OP, also Bun3y devolved into ad hominem and repeated rhetoric. Its sad to see him argue like that, not the usual manner I expected from him. I thought he was better than that. Also bun3y you are still applying "riki base skill logic"

                -- I think its basically imaging Skywrath or Lion or Ogre magi or any other hero with much stun, just walking aruond perma invis. Gank mid, you can't even call a miss as you won't know if lane or not.
                Gank top etc..


                oh well

                +1 to op
                Originally posted by Typhox
                Nope. Windows Explorer is not a database
                Take a look into the mirror! You think you are completely unfailable. With your limited knowledge, you think that you know more than someone who is very deep in the matter/an expert.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Crowfeather View Post
                  After reading some of this argument I agree with OP, also Bun3y devolved into ad hominem and repeated rhetoric. Its sad to see him argue like that, not the usual manner I expected from him. I thought he was better than that. Also bun3y you are still applying "riki base skill logic"

                  -- I think its basically imaging Skywrath or Lion or Ogre magi or any other hero with much stun, just walking aruond perma invis. Gank mid, you can't even call a miss as you won't know if lane or not.
                  Gank top etc..


                  oh well

                  +1 to op
                  If people keep repeating the same argument which got counter thousand times before, then I just step lower too. Also it's not me who started randomly claiming people wouldn't play this mode only because people can't give proper arguments.

                  Says I don't play AD and wouldn't know how it is. Says I would be full of bullshit. Yea, those are really great arguments there.

                  Invis is invis. Doesn't matter what other spells you slap on that, it's completely nuliffied, basically an empty skill slot when you just buy detection.
                  Please, just call me buny.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by bu3ny View Post
                    If people keep repeating the same argument which got counter thousand times before, then I just step lower too. Also it's not me who started randomly claiming people wouldn't play this mode only because people can't give proper arguments.

                    Says I don't play AD and wouldn't know how it is. Says I would be full of bullshit. Yea, those are really great arguments there.

                    Invis is invis. Doesn't matter what other spells you slap on that, it's completely nuliffied, basically an empty skill slot when you just buy detection.
                    You shouldn't stoop to their level no matter what shit they say. ----You never do in the bug forum section. But w/e

                    -Also I think the argument is that:

                    (1) You will not be able to buy detection to cover the whole map
                    (2) You will have limited detection early game since gold cost is high in comparison to starting gold/support farm
                    (3) Perma invis globally is effective as you can gank at any point , effective smoke gank/invis gank without miss calls etc as they won't know if on lane or not.
                    (4) The strength with invis lies in the ability to dodge certain projectiles / nullify projectiles. - If you couple this with a range hero then it becomes significant. Also the fact you can cast items without breaking it.


                    but that's from what I've read.
                    Last edited by Crowfeather; 10-13-2014, 05:09 PM.
                    Originally posted by Typhox
                    Nope. Windows Explorer is not a database
                    Take a look into the mirror! You think you are completely unfailable. With your limited knowledge, you think that you know more than someone who is very deep in the matter/an expert.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Wow, this turned into a rather useless battle...
                      I would like to --hopefully-- make the issue clear for those who don't see it:

                      It might so be that we who have played less than 2k games of Dota, don't know how to properly deal with invisible enemies. Maybe we don't, but the point I believe OP wanted to make, and the point I want to make, is that Permanent Invisibility in AD makes the game unreasonably more difficult for the opponent. The point is not that it's particularly difficult to deal with; it is the fact that you have to deal with it that is the problem. You have to buy sentries and wards and dust, and you must play carefully and passively. You can never walk alone, switching lanes or trying to split push, because if an enemy with PI and one or two nukes --perhaps even a 600 damage at level 1 Ultimate (!)-- finds you, you are dead. The probability of you not dying if he catches you in a bad position is close to 0%. Can you name any other, single ability that causes this sort of pain? I know some combinations are overpowered (Napalm + Shackles anyone?), but no other ability manages to suck so much fun out of a match, as Riki's (now non-ultimate) Permanent Invisibility. That is the point.

                      AD is about having fun and "mixing it up". PI ruins that and should therefore be changed appropriately or removed from AD.
                      Please don't reject my post immediately because "I must be stupid noob who can't deal with invis, pft!" --consider it.

                      EDIT: First post, woho!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Tell you how my games with PI go? After level 2 the lane with that hero buys sentries and zones him out of the lane. After level 4 I get detection (sentries for our lane and Dust for ganking/team fights in enemy territory) too no matter what, unless our opponents are so strong I have no gold so PI doesn't usually matter in this case. Unless PI user has something like Borrowed Time they never go in if they get detected in the past w/o backup or checking the area with their sentries. In the end that hero usually least impactful and get flamed by his allies in all chat.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          For my games it looks different - the guy with PI stays to farm few levels and starts ganking other lanes. If he gets 1 or 2 kills fast at lvl 3-5 he starts snowballing fast running around and ganking guyz at places without detection.

                          Its not that he's OP in laning stage but that he makes you use your gold for detection and can go gank and runaway easier after kill. And if there's someone farming woods he can usually kill him fast.

                          Anyway nothing will change if we keep talking about what's OP or not rather than fix the mode :|

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Why do you let him farm? What does the invisibility matter at that point when you just let them farm? If I'd have farm, I'd prefer having real 4th spell than something which virutally does nothing at only may help to get in range. A simple blink spell is more "broken" that invis, because it has the same effect, allows you to get in range and use your spells.
                            Please, just call me buny.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by bu3ny View Post
                              Why do you let him farm? What does the invisibility matter at that point when you just let them farm?
                              It's not like I can deny him every creep especially when he's ranged and I'm not... You saying like letting him gain any experience is a choice...

                              Of course we can keep ganking this lane and neglect others or just on this lane we should keep hitting him all the time so he can't farm at all. But that's just same as normal early game except the guy has one point used on invisibility but when he survives to 5th to have 3 points put in some good spell he can start spamming.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                You're so wrong I didn't even wanted to start arguing with you at first.
                                * You can't start spamming unless you either got godlike regen (how is that possible in the laning stage?), or picked cheap spells, or got Mana Drain/Sacrifice. Cheap spells barely do much damage so forget that; MD/Sacrifice don't add to the overall hero's nuking power, so that's stupid too. You can't even cast anything if you don't get in range. And you shouldn't let him get in range just because you must have a set of sentries in your lane. Don't tell me 200 gold is that expensive, that's like 5 creeps w/o free gold every second. So you place a ward there creeps clashing and just harass him out of lane all the time. If you can't do this... meh. Stop complaining then and eat your losses. No even need in ganking, Jesus, WTF are you smoking? ALL YOU HAD TO DO CJ IS HARASS THE ENEMY HERO. If you're melee and they have a ranged hero, it doesn't matter does he have PI or not, the ranged hero is always gonna make your like hard. So, how come you dare to cry "permanent invis is OP, valve pls" if you can't handle basics of the game like melee vs ranged, sentries in lane against any invis hero, etc?

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