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Anti-Mage vs Hard or Unfair Bots

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  • Anti-Mage vs Hard or Unfair Bots

    Can you win regularly with Anti-Mage and an all bot squad? If so what's your strategy? I find he's one of the hardest heroes to play well against the bots when you have a lane partner who wont protect you or effectively harass so you can get the farm you need.

  • #2
    You are talking about solo practicing and not Co-op, right?

    In this case, playing any farming hero will be difficult due to your ally bots not coordinating with you. For AM, you MUST be good at last hitting. Max your passive first (or go for BurNing build pre-lvl 11) to surive laning stage, then get Battle Fury asap. In normal games you buy BF only if your teammates can hold on 4v5 before you get farmed, but against bots it's a must - later you will either outfarm the enemy carry (if your bots don't feed horribly) or just split-push to victory. And always get a BKB. Still, if the enemy team has 2 carries (like CK+Luna, SK+Sven, happens a lot) you are most likely screwed unless your bots win the laning stage.
    Last edited by Keowee; 10-08-2013, 11:35 AM.
    Remember, remember the 1st of November

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    • #3
      It can be done but it sometimes will require you to get a tad more involved in team fights than you normally would as an AM, else your bots just fed and throw the game away before you can become active. In some cases taking mid (unless the enemy has viper or something) can work because you can get levels much faster and jungle earlier. Sometimes taking a Vlad rather than a BF rush just to give you solid jungle income can work plus the auras do help your bot team mates.

      I might make a vid of this later because I usually win my AM bot games. It's tight but I usually pull it off.

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      • #4
        go mid, win game
        Originally posted by biejis
        I PLAY SUPP AND SHOW WARD ALLGAME, PEOPLE NOT LEARN NOT CHANGE, PLAY DOTA FOR LOSE A GAME

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        • #5
          I wouldn't suggest mid Anti-Mage if your goal is to practice and eventually play the hero in real games. If you play against bots just for fun though, anything can work. A proven fact: bots can make even Dagon Anti-Mage viable.
          Remember, remember the 1st of November

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          • #6
            One of my biggest problems with the bots that because of their shortcomings (both on your side and your opponents) you have to do things that are otherwise useless for playing the hero in real games. Mid Anti-Mage is a terrific example, it is honestly sometimes the best choice because of your team configuration and that just shouldn't be. Otherwise you get Tiny, Zeus or something feeding to the standard bot mids of Death Prophet, Viper, Sniper, Necrolyte and so on.

            In any case, if you play a standard farming Anti-Mage as you would in a pub sure you'll win if the bots pull their weight, if they are in a feeding mood however you are going to lose well before you come online or you just aren't going to be able to kill them all because they are so fed, so you need to plan your strategy and item build accordingly. Had a game a long time ago before I discovered how to adapt to this as Phantom Lancer where I had 0 deaths with 10 kills and the ending score was some 23 to 80, against me of course. It was one of the worst displays of bot feeding I've seen to date.

            Edit: I did complete a recording of a game by the way. Some really silly stuff on both sides with Warlock and Death Prophets ultimate. I forced my bots to pick CM and Zeus to make it harder but still ended up with a relatively okay line up and Dragon Knight on my team actually had a solid game, pretty rare for him though that's probably due to partnering up with Warlock. They got Tiny, Juggernaut and Kunnka had an abysmal game. So I might do another because things went my way this game. Maybe I'll suggest Tiny and CM, CM is friggin horrible geez...
            Last edited by Peachrocks; 10-08-2013, 03:43 PM.

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            • #7
              I was watching an MLG game a few days ago, and rtz went for a Armlet on Anti-Mage. I haven't tried it, but I think it probably makes more sense for early aggressive anti-mage, as he has relatively low HP. I've usually gone Vanguard/Yasha/Power Treads and either get BKB, Basher, Linken's (if you're facing Bane) or go for Butterfly before I think about finishing Manta.

              You can't farm a hard carry when you play solo with 4 bots on your side, because they'll always feed and enemy team will always push into your base by 15-20 minutes. You have to participate in team fights or you'll just lose every time.
              This ain't ova.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Karyoplasma View Post
                go mid, win game
                This, in non-bot games too.

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                • #9
                  You can't farm a hard carry when you play solo with 4 bots on your side, because they'll always feed and enemy team will always push into your base by 15-20 minutes. You have to participate in team fights or you'll just lose every time.
                  Yep, this is what I've noticed, and good luck with those teamfights when the matchups are not good. If you go hard carry like AM playing with 9 other bots Hard or Unfair, and you just take what rolls up randomly instead of suggesting picks, I don't think its possible to win every game no matter how good you are.

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                  • #10
                    While the subject of armlet is up, am I alone in terms of hating this item? I hate having to toggle it and even more hate that it sucks your HP. I don't really mind Pudge's stink for some reason though, maybe because when you turn it off you don't see your HP drop like that. Seems like Armlet gets me killed about half the time I use it.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Karyoplasma View Post
                      go mid, win game
                      Can he really hold his own vs a Sniper / Viper, even Necrolyte? Seems like major HP problems when trying to get last hits.

                      I'd love to see a video of someone winning the middle lane with AM vs one of those bots on Hard or Unfair.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Chaduke View Post
                        Can he really hold his own vs a Sniper / Viper, even Necrolyte? Seems like major HP problems when trying to get last hits.

                        I'd love to see a video of someone winning the middle lane with AM vs one of those bots on Hard or Unfair.
                        Don't max Mana Break and buy Tranquils and you should are fine. Don't get too greedy on lasthits if your HP can't afford it and when shit really gets thick consider a bottle to gank the sidelanes.

                        Edit:
                        Being the nice guy that I am, I made you a demo. Download it from my Dropbox. The .dem was not in my replay folder but in x:\\%progs%\Steam\SteamApps\common\dota 2 beta\dota. So just drop it there and watch it ingame by typing "playdemo am.dem" in the console. Somehow you cannot fast forward, not sure why. Anyway, hf watching Unfair Viper getting slammed mid.
                        Last edited by Karyoplasma; 10-09-2013, 04:52 PM.
                        Originally posted by biejis
                        I PLAY SUPP AND SHOW WARD ALLGAME, PEOPLE NOT LEARN NOT CHANGE, PLAY DOTA FOR LOSE A GAME

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                        • #13
                          I haven't watched your game Karyo but I might just to see this. I'm pretty sure I know what you did but still .

                          In any case, unless the mid match up is going to be horrific because we have none of the good bot mids, I will take the safe lane otherwise I'll take mid and come what may. Early Tranquils is very good for 'team based' AM because you can break them up later when you want Treads and the remaining two items build up to a Vladimir if you want it at some point.

                          As for Armlet, I am not a big fan of it but it's value on Carry Strength heroes such as Skeleton King, Chaos Knight and Slardar is excellent. Getting a heart on top of that pretty much means you never need to turn Armlet off. Outside of such strength heroes though, I'd give it a miss. Those heroes have a bit more leeway because they've got a lot of HP to be drained on top of the huge strength gain adding to their auto attack damage but AM does not have a lot of health so the payout doesn't seem as great. I still think Vlad's is your best bet for a 'safer' team fight based AM, maybe Vanguard too but you really don't want to put off your Battle Fury for too long so I just stick with a poor mans with strength treads with a Vlad if necessary.

                          Another thing about AM is that mana shield is extremely good with one point in it, but it scales horribly. Mana break is match up dependent and how much Blink you want is based on preference.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Karyoplasma View Post
                            go mid, win game
                            Agree.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Peachrocks View Post
                              In any case, unless the mid match up is going to be horrific because we have none of the good bot mids, I will take the safe lane otherwise I'll take mid and come what may. Early Tranquils is very good for 'team based' AM because you can break them up later when you want Treads and the remaining two items build up to a Vladimir if you want it at some point.
                              I ALWAYS fare better in mid, because when you lane with a bot it turns out being a 1v2 lane against you while you have a feeding and xp leeching retard with you. I occasionally wait until bots set their lanes at 0:15 after creepspawn and proceed to trilane with them. That allows you to ping the squishiest enemy bot on your lane and watch your allies go apeshit on him while you can freefarm.

                              Tranquils are vital if you are going up against heroes that harrass the shit out of you, like Viper does. It kinda helped that Viper decided to man up against me on my own hill at level 3. I chuckled a little and collected my 400 gold for the Tranquil fond. I still had to ferry 2 healthpots before I got Ring of Health because Viper is more concerned about going on your nerves than he is about staying alive and not feeding away 3 kills before minute 7...
                              If you are mid against one of the shitty bots or even Zeus, I rush treads after maybe buying a bottle.
                              Originally posted by biejis
                              I PLAY SUPP AND SHOW WARD ALLGAME, PEOPLE NOT LEARN NOT CHANGE, PLAY DOTA FOR LOSE A GAME

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