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[Feedback] Bots versus Creeps.

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  • [Feedback] Bots versus Creeps.

    I've noticed for a while now, but thought these issues had been reported. There seems to be no changes incoming so I thought I would list some issues I've found with bots interacting with creeps.

    Last-Hits:
    During the early game the bots are actually quite good at not pushing creep lines. They wait until just the right moment to land the last-hit and collect their fee. However, scaling down toward mid to late game, the bots are very dumb when it comes to last hitting and pushing at the same time.

    They will announce "Pushing Bot", but they don't actually push the lane. They essentially go back to laning in their announced lane, waiting for their own creeps to whittle down the health of the enemy creeps and only hit once they know they can get the last-hit. If I'm pushing the lane with them I'm also chipping away at the enemy creeps. The problem is I'm getting next to no last hits due to my team mate reserving their attacks for last hitting purposes.

    Suggestions for pushing:
    • During pushing phases, bots should focus on one creep at a time and simply auto-attack it. When it comes down to the last percentages of health stop attacking and then wait to last hit.
    • If a human player is attacking a creep and there are other creeps around do not focus the same creep as the human players. If there are no other creeps around then focus that creep if it is over 35% health, otherwise wait for creep wave to advance.
    • Do not last hit a creep if a human player has engaged it the last 5 seconds. If a bot engages a creep that is also engaged by a human player (over 35% health) the last hit can go to either hero.
    • All of this is of course if said bot does not have an ability to help push the lane faster. That should take precedence over auto-attacking.



    Defending towers from Siege Wagons:
    I remember when bots NEVER attacked siege wagons. I'm glad that is no longer the case. The issue as I see it with siege wagons is that bots never focus them. When calling for defense on a tower being pushed by creeps and a siege wagon or two, a bot will focus on the closest creep. If a siege wagon starts firing on your tower the bots should then focus the siege wagon, making it a higher priority over creeps. Siege wagons are a far greater threat to towers than creeps are and should be dealt with as soon as possible. I would even forgo waiting for siege wagons to start firing on towers and instead focus them if they're within a certain range of a tower. In both cases I would assure that first there are no enemy heroes around.


    Defending towers from Creeps:
    • If there are no allied creeps around, bots should grab the attention of the creeps and pull them away from the tower toward your next creep wave.
    • Bots should grab the attention of the creeps attacking your tower and then drop an ability on them.



    Bots run out of allied creeps:
    The last thing I wish to mention, which may or may not still be a problem (can't remember the last time I've seen this behavior) is how bots react when they are face to face with a bunch of enemy creeps. Basically, the problem here is that bots and players need a buffer of allied creeps between them and the enemy creeps. You rarely want to take damage head on from creeps during the early game, however it can be negligible damage during late game and worth it during early ganks.

    Issue:
    Enemy creeps kill allied creeps and the bot(s) are face to face with the enemy creeps. The bots will run back and forth, pacing, waiting for their next creep wave to show up. Meanwhile these enemy creeps are attacking the bots uncontested.

    Solutions:
    • If early game, bots should run back toward their next creep wave. They should not pace back and forth waiting for their incoming creep wave to arrive. Once behind a creep buffer, proceed to push or last hit.
    • If mid game, the bots should either push the lane with auto-attacks and abilities or retreat toward their creep line if both moderately low on health and/or mana. Once behind a creep buffer, proceed to push or last hit.
    • If late game the bots should push the creep line with auto-attacks and abilities or retreat toward their next creep wave if both moderately low on health and/or mana.
    • They should not run around in front of enemy creeps like a headless courier.



    If anyone else has suggestions in dealing with these behaviors, or they have encountered other weird bot versus creep interaction, please leave a reply.
    Last edited by squinte; 04-18-2012, 11:51 PM.
    This ain't ova.

  • #2
    +1. Nice solutions.

    I would have to extend this to foe interaction. I have seen at least 3 kills each game due to either creeps or heroes triggering "the bots will run back and forth, pacing, waiting for their next creep wave to show up. Meanwhile these enemy creeps are attacking the bots uncontested." I have found it is also triggered by:
    • Bot approaches allied creeps with enemy heroes in pursuit - something goes off with their 'safety' logic and they occasionally sit there waiting for us to kill them. Solution: allied creeps are not safe if at least 3 enemies are present.
    • Bot approaches enemy creeps with enemy heroes in pursuit - frequently the bot doesn't know where to go. Solution: go through the creeps if he has to.
    • Enemy heroes in pursuit - frequently a bot will turn around and run directly between two enemies. It nearly always happens in the area around the ramp to the Dire easy creep camp (running up that ramp).
    • I have seen AI being far to cocky about their ability to judge ranges and dying because of it. If they are fleeing then they should be (by preference closest group of heroes, creeps, tower) - not attempting whatever it is they are attempting (running back and forth).
    Rules to be a good beta tester:
    1. Don't bring WC3 limitations to DOTA 2.
    2. Be an example. You are not here to play ALL games for fun. You are here to test so we can have a better game.
    3. Don't say that something is working as intended, unless it makes complete sense, not just because it was like DOTA 1.
    4. Being a better player than someone doesn't mean his argument is null-and-void.
    5. Use the search.
    Language Issues | Matchmaking Issues | Report/Commend Issues

    Comment


    • #3
      Good point, I've noticed some like Earth Shaker use Fissure to push a lane fast (actually hes quite annoying with it when I would rather push as carry with a good AoE) and others are really bad to the point of getting bored and wandering off sometimes.

      Comment


      • #4
        ^ I have only noticed him using it in 'panic' (if my harass pushes him below a specific threshold), ganks, and sometimes to harass heroes. In all three cases the creeps usually land up getting caught in the cross-fire.

        The 'wandering' off is intentional: bots gank/support extremely aggressively (actually I have learnt a lot from them in that regard). I am not sure if that should be changed; try following him and landing a kill .
        Rules to be a good beta tester:
        1. Don't bring WC3 limitations to DOTA 2.
        2. Be an example. You are not here to play ALL games for fun. You are here to test so we can have a better game.
        3. Don't say that something is working as intended, unless it makes complete sense, not just because it was like DOTA 1.
        4. Being a better player than someone doesn't mean his argument is null-and-void.
        5. Use the search.
        Language Issues | Matchmaking Issues | Report/Commend Issues

        Comment


        • #5
          Good suggestions, thanks.

          Comment

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