Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules

  • No flaming or derogatory remarks, directly or through insinuation.
  • No discussion, sharing or referencing illegal software such as hacks, keygen, cracks and pirated software.
  • No offensive contents, including but not limited to, racism, gore or pornography.
  • No excessive spam/meme, i.e. copious one liners in a short period of time, typing with all caps or posting meme responses (text/image).
  • No trolling, including but not limited to, flame incitation, user provocation or false information distribution.
  • No link spamming or signature advertisements for content not specific to Dota 2.
  • No Dota 2 key requests, sell, trade etc.
  • You may not create multiple accounts for any purpose, including ban evasion, unless expressly permitted by a moderator.

  • Please search before posting. One thread per issue. Do not create another thread if there is an existing one already.
  • Before posting anything, make sure you check out all sticky threads (e.g., this). Do not create new threads about closed ones.
  • It is extremely important that you post in correct forum section.

  • Balance discussion only in Misc.
  • All art related (such as hero model) feedbacks go to Art Feedback Forum.
  • All matchmaking feedback should go here: Matchmaking Feedback
  • All report/low priority issues should go here: Commend/Report/Ban Feedback
  • No specific workshop item feedback. These should go to workshop page of that item.
  • When posting in non-bugs section (such as this), use [Bugs], [Discussion] or [Suggestion] prefix in your thread name.



In case you object some action by a moderator, please contact him directly through PM and explain your concerns politely. If you are still unable to resolve the issue, contact an administrator. Do not drag these issues in public.



All rules are meant to augment common sense, please use them when not conflicted with aforementioned policies.
See more
See less

A list of bot woes

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • A list of bot woes

    Since I like to play a lot of bot matches, I thought I'd put into the forums a list of the things I've noticed are wrong/poorly realised in the bots behaviours.

    Passive Laning - Some bots are deathly afraid of you, to the point that you can position yourself between them and the creep wave so you can get all the last hits and denies. If they're ranged, you can scare them off just by walking towards them. It means you can verse a Tiny or Lina mid lane, arguably some of the most dangerous mid heroes, using a hero like Juggernaut or Spirit Breaker, and get all the farm.

    Reply Spell Casting - Bots don't seem to like using spells at all whilst laning (with exceptions), unless you first use a spell. It gets to a point where Tiny or Vengeful Spirit will only use spells once you've used one on them. This is particularly funny when you trigger their response spell, which kills you, and could have much earlier.

    12 minutes, end laning phase - At around the 12 minute mark, suddenly all the bots decide that laning phase is OVER, and begin to hive-mind into one big five man push. This is incredibly annoying when they decide to five man push different lanes, trading towers all the way to tier 3.

    Doing Roshan! - At the most ridiculous times, the bots will all suddenly decide it is time to do Roshan, like after a deciding team fight, when they're inside the enemy base, and every hero is dead for 30-60 second respawn timers. It can be incredibly frustrating also to watch the entire enemy team decide to do Roshan with no real advantage and you can't contest it because the btos don't respond to pings. Although you can counter that simply by pushing down as many towers as you can. It's worse when your bots decide it's Roshan-o-clock and you have to defend a five man push into towers.

    Attacking Base - Deciding matches draw out for ages, and can often turn around because the bots, seemingly at random, flee the enemy base after a team fight. If the player is still in there, then he gets squashed by the 3v1. Also Bots aren't very interested in pushing tier four towers and have a tendency to head back to where a new creep wave spawns to clear it before going towards towers again (even when there's creeps tnaking the towers). But worst of all is when a tier 2 or 3 tower is being pushed, all your bots are there and they refuse to engage the enemy until the tower goes down. Bots don't defend towers, they kind of just sit behind the tower and hope it doesn't die.

    Jungle - Bots are just horrible with jungle, whilst I understand there isn't any bots who jungle (yet!) from level 1, they chose horrible times to farm up, namely when all the enemy team is dead! You don't need more farm when you've just won a team fight, you need to push your advantage, and their towers. Also bots could afford to do more jungle / laning and less five man pushing after 12 minutes.

    Port Ganking - Sometimes bots decide to port into your lane to do a gank, but unfortunately can be deadly obvious so escape is easy, or worse, outright walk away as soon as they port in!

    Push, Push, Push - Bots don't like farm and all bots, regardless of composition or numbers, will push a certain lane. They can even do this into enemy base, and on their own. Then when the enemy inevitably shows up, they get mega ganked and killed because they're on their own, or at best with one or two other heroes. Also bots push late game even when three of their heroes are dead, instead of being cautious.

    GOOD HEROES

    1. Bane - Has to be the most annoying / powerful hero so far, rarely to never is passive mid, harrasses, last hits, pops all his CC, uses his heal nuke at game-changing times, nerfs the carry's damage and is in general a real badass. So many times has he used a clutch ult to decide a team fight. Best hero you have.

    2. Razor - Has got it down, even after it hits 12 minute team fight fest you can see him quietly farming in some lane or another and he's always concentrating on getting his items up (and he farms pretty well if left alone). Apart from sometimes dropping parts of his satanic to pick up Aegis, Razor is a good asset to the team and a hard enemy to kill since he tries to keep parity on gold and xp.

    3. Windrunner - Although if you're careful you can make very few shackles latch anything, windrunner uses her arrow intelligently and is generally an absolute pain to kill. Also if she ever gets Orchid she becomes very scary with help.

    4. Vengeful Spirit - Probably not a great hero but it's hilarious to see Vengeful get a triple kill at random in a team fight and attempt to carry with a Manta late game. Also ult-disrupting channels is pretty clutch. Although she does have the tendency to use ult in melee range, or ulting herself to certain doom (but which Vengeful doesn't?)

    BAD HEROES

    1. Crystal Maiden - Has to be the worst hero bot ever, as this bot makes any match a 4v5 with hero killing gold for the five. Problem starts really immediately as Crystal Maiden has absolutely no lane presence at all. At the start of the game (arguably when she's at her strongest as a hero) this bot does absolutely no harass, at best tries to deny one creep per wave and doesn't hit a single spell. Late game she switches form, becoming Chuck Norris with no farm, running into five heroes on her own. She exhibits qualities all the bots have but is like the perfect amalgam of all retard qualities rolled into one hero bot.

    It's gotten to the point that I refuse to play bot matches with or against her if I can, as she spoils any match she's in.

    2. Kunkka - Has mental deficiencies, because whilst he tries his hardest to land that torrent and hit that ship (sometimes at horrible times, sometimes being really key), he never uses his X Marks the spot ability (whatever it is called). He also doesn't build very good items late game, nothing game-breaking like Daedelus Splash or anything befitting his semi-carry role.

    3. Tiny - Whilst he's never going to be a bad hero, tiny takes his ganking role a bit too seriously sometimes, by randomnly blink comboing into five clustered enemies. Whilst that is excellent initiation, often times he does it when no one is around and dies a quick death. He also likes to do lvl 2 or lvl 4 ganks and he just isn't generally powerful enough to do ganks effectively before 6+.

    I hope this post has at least some useful information in it, that can be of help, if not maybe a fun read/wall of text.

    Thanks.

    Oh and to add something I like about bots, they pick up and will use Divine Rapier, and handle gems etc. very well. It's funny to feed bots Divine Rapiers!
    Last edited by KariwmKlawm; 08-04-2012, 11:38 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by KariwmKlawm View Post
    GOOD HEROES:

    1. Bane - Has to be the most annoying / powerful hero so far, rarely to never is passive mid, harrasses, last hits, pops all his CC, uses his heal nuke at game-changing times, nerfs the carry's damage and is in general a real badass. So many times has he used a clutch ult to decide a team fight. Best hero you have.
    Yes, Bane's good but I played few times only with him. Very rarely bots pick :O




    Originally posted by KariwmKlawm View Post
    4. Vengeful Spirit - Probably not a great hero but it's hilarious to see Vengeful get a triple kill at random in a team fight and attempt to carry with a Manta late game. Also ult-disrupting channels is pretty clutch. Although she does have the tendency to use ult in melee range, or ulting herself to certain doom (but which Vengeful doesn't?)
    U MAD...? :E Vengeful Spirit get any kill?

    Originally posted by dumbi View Post
    Hi!

    I play with normal and unfair bots.
    They've got few problems with themselves.

    List of problems:
    • [...]
    • Obtaining new, better and correct items
      OMG...OMG...OMG... I reported few weeks ago, and it still doesn't work properly. They should use stash and more often courier.

      Vengeful Spirit is the worst buyer ever (and great feeder too)! Last time, he got Boots of Speed and one Blades of Attack, but second Blades of Attack was flying with courier for 10 minutes...
      Lina shouldn't buy wards.
      1st screenshot
      2nd screenshot
      3rd screenshot

    • Using skills
      Vengeful Spirit likes to use Nether Swap to teleport into group of opponents where nobody will can help him. Today he used Nether Swap on me, when he was next to me...
      Lina used her ulti on opponent with 200-300hp.
      That's not smart AI.



    Originally posted by KariwmKlawm View Post
    BAD HEROES:

    [...]

    2. Kunkka - Has mental deficiencies, because whilst he tries his hardest to land that torrent and hit that ship (sometimes at horrible times, sometimes being really key), he never uses his X Marks the spot ability (whatever it is called). He also doesn't build very good items late game, nothing game-breaking like Daedelus Splash or anything befitting his semi-carry role.
    He uses X Marks The Spot (but often).




    BTW: Snipers owns everyone

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by dumbi View Post
      U MAD...? :E Vengeful Spirit get any kill?
      No I think it's great when she gets kills, you're right though, she isn't a great bot at all. I just think its funny when she decides to go carry that game.

      Originally posted by dumbi View Post
      He uses X Marks The Spot (but often).
      I assume you mean not often, because he doesn't, and when he does the kill is typically guaranteed regardless. X is a great gank tool, disruptor, really, he should be using it a lot more. I'm sure on that we agree

      Originally posted by dumbi View Post
      BTW: Snipers owns everyone
      Only if he gets farmed. I personally think they only own with sniper because he can be played effectively one handed. He's a terrible hero though and if you single him out he dies, no matter how good his items are. On your team he typically only owns because you're a bigger threat and targetted (something I quite like actually, except when they follow you to your fountain and all die). Every time they do that I start whistling the Benny Hill theme!

      Comment


      • #4
        Razor has the issue of buying too late, he frequently runs around with 4000-5000g for extended periods of time until at some point he buys a full Vanguard + Blademail in one go. But yeah he's generally useful.

        Zeus takes the prize of most useless Bot for me, he lvls W at one and doesn't use Q in laning phase ever (inclined to believe he actually lvls W/E) which makes him completely useless for the first 5-10 minutes;
        afterwards he has no idea about proper Zeus positioning and instead stands at point blank range in every teamfight, firing his 300 range 50 dmg autoattacks.

        Comment


        • #5
          Zeus seems to be really afraid of using his ultimate lately. There are tons of times where he could get a kill on an enemy running away and he never pops it. Might want to look into that. I know people were complaining about killstealing with Zeus, but I think him being a bit more aggressive with it is better than giving up kills since he's afraid of helping.

          Tiny is blinking to Toss, not blinking to Avalanche. This is a problem since he ends up getting stunned before he ever gets off Ava (since he's blinking in on 5) and he just ends up suiciding. Tiny used to be really, really good with blinking in and now he seems to be committing suicide more often than not.

          Bots in general are staying around when they're way too low on life. I think they feel like allies make them too safe, so they're staying to defend a tower with like 100 HP which just results in them getting nailed with something like Powershot and dying.

          Comment


          • #6
            Not to mention bots stealing your cs when you're trying to play a non-agility carry or farm dependent hero. You pretty much have to take mid every game or an allied bot will be trying to get every creep kill even when there's absolutely no reason they should attempt to last hit.

            Or my favorite: picking a hard carry and having the next pick be Sniper/Juggernaut/Razor.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Fuzzypickles View Post
              Zeus seems to be really afraid of using his ultimate lately. There are tons of times where he could get a kill on an enemy running away and he never pops it. Might want to look into that. I know people were complaining about killstealing with Zeus, but I think him being a bit more aggressive with it is better than giving up kills since he's afraid of helping.

              Tiny is blinking to Toss, not blinking to Avalanche. This is a problem since he ends up getting stunned before he ever gets off Ava (since he's blinking in on 5) and he just ends up suiciding. Tiny used to be really, really good with blinking in and now he seems to be committing suicide more often than not.

              Bots in general are staying around when they're way too low on life. I think they feel like allies make them too safe, so they're staying to defend a tower with like 100 HP which just results in them getting nailed with something like Powershot and dying.
              Yeah these are all things I've noticed too, possibly the most annoying being the low-life heroes. I wish they'd just go back to base and regen! On the other hand, when you do have mid, bots tend to disappear/base heal far too often. Possibly just because (besides Bane) they are so easy to harrass!

              Although I hate kill-steal Zeus, Ult is something that is great to use just before or at the start of a team fight, same as Lina you want to use that massive amount of damage to sway the tides of battle to your favor, not KS. But that's personal preference.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Intress View Post
                Not to mention bots stealing your cs when you're trying to play a non-agility carry or farm dependent hero. You pretty much have to take mid every game or an allied bot will be trying to get every creep kill even when there's absolutely no reason they should attempt to last hit.

                Or my favorite: picking a hard carry and having the next pick be Sniper/Juggernaut/Razor.
                Indeed, either another farm-dependent carry decides to go to your lane or you get a bad support (CM) that doesn't do anything but take EXP, making it a solo lane with no level advantage.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Playing with bots is even more irritating than playing in pubs sometimes.

                  Whenever you find an open lane and you try to farm in it, your whole team TPs to that lane thinking you wanna push so you're forced to farm the jungle. Another thing I hate is that when they're committing to a push, they don't understand the importance of their own structures, and they will gladly trade a tier 2 tower for a barracks. Some games are impossible to win just because your completely dumb team won't even bother showing up as your Ancient gets pushed.

                  Most of the time they're incredibly suicidal and when there's an enemy 5 man push approaching they'll just dive in one by one without even using their spells. Also massive courier feeding!

                  Even though I think their comboing is good, they waste WAY too much mana. If you have just a little regen you can bait their stuff at level 1-2, which won't kill you, and then they'll be oom and forced to pop their clarities. Also their AI goes nuts when you're playing Broodmother, sometimes they'll pull of excellent ganks with Dust which can be really surprising, but if you escape (pretty easy to do) their AI will bug out and they will follow you (while invisble) without popping their spells and stand into your web for a pretty much unlimited time until you reveal yourself.

                  Originally posted by Timelimit View Post
                  Indeed, either another farm-dependent carry decides to go to your lane or you get a bad support (CM) that doesn't do anything but take EXP, making it a solo lane with no level advantage.
                  I love that to be honest, if there's something they're good at is denying so having a Sniper in your lane + the two enemy heroes will make your lasthitting so much better (especially when you play Drow or something like that). It's not like if you get a support they're going to do their job anyway.
                  Last edited by Radio; 08-08-2012, 08:30 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Radio View Post
                    Playing with bots is even more irritating than playing in pubs sometimes.

                    Whenever you find an open lane and you try to farm in it, your whole team TPs to that lane thinking you wanna push so you're forced to farm the jungle. Another thing I hate is that when they're committing to a push, they don't understand the importance of their own structures, and they will gladly trade a tier 2 tower for a barracks. Some games are impossible to win just because your completely dumb team won't even bother showing up as your Ancient gets pushed.

                    Most of the time they're incredibly suicidal and when there's an enemy 5 man push approaching they'll just dive in one by one without even using their spells. Also massive courier feeding!

                    Even though I think their comboing is good, they waste WAY too much mana. If you have just a little regen you can bait their stuff at level 1-2, which won't kill you, and then they'll be oom and forced to pop their clarities. Also their AI goes nuts when you're playing Broodmother, sometimes they'll pull of excellent ganks with Dust which can be really surprising, but if you escape (pretty easy to do) their AI will bug out and they will follow you (while invisble) without popping their spells and stand into your web for a pretty much unlimited time until you reveal yourself.


                    I love that to be honest, if there's something they're good at is denying so having a Sniper in your lane + the two enemy heroes will make your lasthitting so much better (especially when you play Drow or something like that). It's not like if you get a support they're going to do their job anyway.
                    I'd rather bots just defer to humans in terms of last hits regardless of heroes or just not pick a carry when playing with a human. Having a bot pick an agility carry is a liability in my opinion. More often than not the bot feeds as hard as VS and CM, has no farm 40 minutes into the game (Jugg with Treads, HotD, and 2/4 a Battlefury), steals your cs, and only contributes if they somehow get massively fed in the early to mid-game (which is rare for human-allied bots anyway). It wouldn't be so bad either if whatever controls bot picks didn't appear to be broken again. I've had Sven try to take my CS when I was PL of all people. It was one thing when it was just non-agi carries, but now almost every hero you pick they'll try it. And of course you'll still get a carry bot no matter your team comp. I've had games where I'll play with 3 friends and we'll all random and get a lineup like Drow/Necrolyte/Lion/Lina and the bot will pick Razor/Jugg/Sniper.

                    Then they'll blow all their mana to steal your kills, or come up and last hit a hero when your attack animation is about to connect. Of course they won't even look at the hero when you've pinged them 300 times before going in, but only after you've blow all your cooldowns and mana/or spent 2 minutes following a bot through the jungle for that last auto attack and have somebot walts over behind you and just steal it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Intress View Post
                      I'd rather bots just defer to humans in terms of last hits regardless of heroes or just not pick a carry when playing with a human. Having a bot pick an agility carry is a liability in my opinion. More often than not the bot feeds as hard as VS and CM, has no farm 40 minutes into the game (Jugg with Treads, HotD, and 2/4 a Battlefury), steals your cs, and only contributes if they somehow get massively fed in the early to mid-game (which is rare for human-allied bots anyway). It wouldn't be so bad either if whatever controls bot picks didn't appear to be broken again. I've had Sven try to take my CS when I was PL of all people. It was one thing when it was just non-agi carries, but now almost every hero you pick they'll try it. And of course you'll still get a carry bot no matter your team comp. I've had games where I'll play with 3 friends and we'll all random and get a lineup like Drow/Necrolyte/Lion/Lina and the bot will pick Razor/Jugg/Sniper.

                      Then they'll blow all their mana to steal your kills, or come up and last hit a hero when your attack animation is about to connect. Of course they won't even look at the hero when you've pinged them 300 times before going in, but only after you've blow all your cooldowns and mana/or spent 2 minutes following a bot through the jungle for that last auto attack and have somebot walts over behind you and just steal it.
                      I agree with all of this (especially the last part, that happens all the darn time). Please, let the human farm unless (s)he's playing a support.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Intress View Post
                        I'd rather bots just defer to humans in terms of last hits regardless of heroes or just not pick a carry when playing with a human.
                        What I've noticed is that if I'm playing a carry, every single bot on my team attempts to steal CS (Even Crystal Maidens...) whereas if I'm playing a support on a side lane trying to actually play a support role for a carry bot (Because we all know they need help to farm) they will not attempt any CS at all, leaving all last hits. This behaviour is just backwards.

                        Bots need to either have their carry roles improved so that they can actually farm (Sniper is the only bot that I see can farm up, but that's probably due to his ease of last hitting + the fact that bots hate ganking) or reduce the likelyhood of bots picking carries (Especially if there is currently 1 or more carries already selected)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The most irritating thing is when they just stand there while the enemy team takes your racks and then keep saying "I think we should use Glyph".

                          It's the perfect troll team.

                          Also the fact that there's no script telling them to NOT bunch up when there's a Tiny on the enemy team makes winning allied bot games vs. Tiny bot extremely hard.
                          Last edited by Radio; 08-14-2012, 12:15 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Timelimit View Post
                            Indeed, either another farm-dependent carry decides to go to your lane or you get a bad support (CM) that doesn't do anything but take EXP, making it a solo lane with no level advantage.
                            Pretty much this. CM doesn't do anything for you in lane, she only leeches exp. Occasionally she will deny a creep, but very little in terms of actual harassment or actively denying creeps. They made her timid a couple of weeks ago for reasons I am unsure of. I assume is was because she was getting killed a lot rushing into 5 bot enemy team death squad. I personally think that was mainly because she is always trying to solo ward when the enemy team is 5 man pushing the lane she is going through.

                            People reported her being too headstrong and feeding, so now she is dumb as rocks. I don't think that making her timid addressed that issue anyways as she still tries to solo ward and because of that she still runs head on into groups of 5 enemies. The problem is with solo warding after the laning phase is over and not because she thinks she is super buff.

                            If people observe, they will find that which ever bot that wards throughout the game is also always the bot that dies the most on your team.

                            I think the warding bot should say, "Going to ward. Help me." On top of this, I think there should be some logic for the bots to group up with other bots, or a person close to where they want to ward.
                            This ain't ova.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by squinte View Post
                              Pretty much this. CM doesn't do anything for you in lane, she only leeches exp. Occasionally she will deny a creep, but very little in terms of actual harassment or actively denying creeps. They made her timid a couple of weeks ago for reasons I am unsure of. I assume is was because she was getting killed a lot rushing into 5 bot enemy team death squad. I personally think that was mainly because she is always trying to solo ward when the enemy team is 5 man pushing the lane she is going through.

                              People reported her being too headstrong and feeding, so now she is dumb as rocks. I don't think that making her timid addressed that issue anyways as she still tries to solo ward and because of that she still runs head on into groups of 5 enemies. The problem is with solo warding after the laning phase is over and not because she thinks she is super buff.

                              If people observe, they will find that which ever bot that wards throughout the game is also always the bot that dies the most on your team.

                              I think the warding bot should say, "Going to ward. Help me." On top of this, I think there should be some logic for the bots to group up with other bots, or a person close to where they want to ward.
                              CM wasn't dying just because she was warding often. She used to like running up to my face as a carry 40 minutes in just to Crystal Nova me + the creeps. Of course, I just instantly explode her.
                              And well, while grouping up to place wards is a good idea in some cases, honestly if you keep track of hero positions on the map or make do with some more defensive positions, there is no reason you should die nearly as often as the bots do when warding.

                              And really CM was rather useless in lane even before she was made more timid, she's just really really bad at gauging her strength compared to the enemy.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X