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Dazzle doesn't use Shallow Grave

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  • #2
    I've seen him use it, though it's usually on himself.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by gordongriest View Post
      I've seen him use it, though it's usually on himself.
      He probably only uses it on himself I guess. He watches his entire team die without using the spell at all, holding onto the spell for no reason even when he's in range, full mana and in no personal danger.
      Last edited by Radio; 10-04-2012, 02:03 PM.

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      • #4
        He doesn't use it properly past early game. He seems to prioritize other things over casting Shallow Grave during large team fights, he'll only prioritize it when his own life is at stake.

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        • #5
          Not to mention he uses it when he still has 20% HP which means Grave will wear off just 1 or so second(s) before he dies (which is how most pubs do it, it's just that I expected a more epic 1% health grave from a bot, considering what perfect timing a CM bot has at denying :P).
          Explanations on the normal, high and very high brackets in replays: here, here & here
          Why maphacks won't work in D2: here

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          • #6
            Originally posted by The Nomad View Post
            Not to mention he uses it when he still has 20% HP which means Grave will wear off just 1 or so second(s) before he dies (which is how most pubs do it, it's just that I expected a more epic 1% health grave from a bot, considering what perfect timing a CM bot has at denying :P).
            Uh you're saying it takes 4 seconds to bring him from 20% to 0%.
            Either way, he bases it on incoming damage. Say if you burst him down from 100% to 30% in 1 second using all your nukes, a good player will realize you got nothing left and keep it for when he drops lower, but Dazzle bot just goes "Shit at this rate I'm gonna die in the next half second, gotta Shallow Grave". And really he's not wrong, from all the data he has that is what's going to happen.
            It's a complex issue though, as it would require cool down prediction and full comprehension of spells. While possible, I'd say that at least all heroes would require a working AI for Dazzle to be making such good predictions, as he'd effectively have to predict how each enemy spell could effect him to make the most accurate timings. Certainly not worth the effort right now anyhow.

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            • #7
              As long as we're on the subject of Dazzle not casting spells, I've also never seen him use Poison Touch to help run away from a single enemy hero chasing him when he has no backup. That might be a good thing for him to do.
              Originally posted by ChrisC
              - Fixed Bloodseeker getting slowed down by haste

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Commoble View Post
                As long as we're on the subject of Dazzle not casting spells, I've also never seen him use Poison Touch to help run away from a single enemy hero chasing him when he has no backup. That might be a good thing for him to do.
                That's a problem common to all heroes with a disable. If you're attacking them and they're not in the middle of creeps you can just kill them 'cause they won't consider using their abilities.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Radio View Post
                  That's a problem common to all heroes with a disable. If you're attacking them and they're not in the middle of creeps you can just kill them 'cause they won't consider using their abilities.
                  I've actually noticed the opposite, though this may just be on Unfair difficulty. Anytime you jump onto a bot with any kind of disable, they will immediately cast it on you (stuns, sleep, root, etc). The only exception I've noticed are Slows. Also, they never seem to use their Ultimates defensively- even when it could potentially save their life.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Arxos View Post
                    Uh you're saying it takes 4 seconds to bring him from 20% to 0%.
                    No, I mean he uses Grave then runs away. Anyway I know what you mean regarding his decisions based on the current situation. My point (and some other points here) were just about the fact he makes bad decisions or he uses Grave for himself instead of helping out his team. That's all

                    That is, for a Support, he acts quite a lot like a Ganker. Personally I find Windrunner to be the best balance between roles (that is, switching fast from Ganker to Support) out of all non-Carry bots.
                    Explanations on the normal, high and very high brackets in replays: here, here & here
                    Why maphacks won't work in D2: here

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by EmblemLord View Post
                      I've actually noticed the opposite, though this may just be on Unfair difficulty. Anytime you jump onto a bot with any kind of disable, they will immediately cast it on you (stuns, sleep, root, etc). The only exception I've noticed are Slows. Also, they never seem to use their Ultimates defensively- even when it could potentially save their life.
                      Only if you lead with spells. If you just walk up to 'em and autoattack them, they'll just try to run away and get killed in the process. If you get rank 2 Frost Arrows on Drow you can easily kill them repeatedly in lane because of the slow, even 1v2. That's at Unfair difficulty.

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                      • #12
                        Worked on the logic for Shallow Grave a little more, he really doesn't have a preference for using it on himself other than that he always happens to be in range of it.

                        Also added some additional usage logic for Poison Touch (for assisting an ally and retreating) that'll be in the next update.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ChrisC View Post
                          Worked on the logic for Shallow Grave a little more, he really doesn't have a preference for using it on himself other than that he always happens to be in range of it.

                          Also added some additional usage logic for Poison Touch (for assisting an ally and retreating) that'll be in the next update.
                          Well it's rather that he doesn't ever feel it worth casting on team mates once he's outside of the laning phase. I dunno but it more so seems he just casts it on himself as a personal escape mechanism once outside the laning phase, he doesn't actually seem to use the spell other than when his escape AI forces him to.

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                          • #14
                            Dazzle has saved me on a couple of occasions with Shallow grave. Guess he just doesn't like OP

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                            • #15
                              Yep there was a bug that caused him to only rarely use it on teammates. Will be fixed in the next update.

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