Juggernaut still broken

[assteepee]

Looks like juggernaut still sucks because he won't finish his battlefury. In fact he doesn't start buying it till 40 minutes in, despite the team winning. I noticed around 30 minutes he had about 3k gold saved up and still only had a helm of the dominator, so I figured maybe he was programmed to buy items in its entirety so that he always has money for buy backs? Anyway 10 minutes later I notice he bought broadsword/claymore/ring of regen but no void stone because he was still a bit short. So he farmed...and farmed...and farmed...and never bought that void stone. Also when I checked around 40 minutes he was still level 15 when the rest of my team were 20+ and me and skeleton king were already 25, and even the opposing team was level 18-20. I sort of attributed this to his always farming/half assed teaming fighting/always dying approach.

Here is a screenshot of him not buying the void stone 53 minutes in. dota0002.jpg

PS. when you guys fix this thing you also have to make him get that battlefury way earlier. For one have him buy it in parts so he doesn't lose the money when he dies, and second he needs to get it before the helm of the dominator. He's just such a burden to have on your team, and everytime he is, the game is almost guaranteed to go way longer than it should because regardless of how well you're doing he just ends up feeding so hard that it allows the enemy team to catch up.

[assteepee]

So just had another match where he farmed for 30 minutes without showing up for a single team fight, no surprise there. Got his helm, got his treads, he's set! Interestingly enough this time, he bought a full perserverance (YAY!!!), which he had on him, but the broadsword and claymore were left in his stash for almost the rest of the damn game. He then proceeds to buy a reaver to finish his satanic, and FINALLY, after he buys the satanic recipe, he picks up his broadsword and claymore as well that he bought almost 20 minutes ago to finally finish his battlefury.

[Silent.Bob]

confirm,
played with him couple days ago,he feeded to 0-7 constantly trying to farm jungles where he were dying being ganked.
After that he still were trying to farm despite enemies were wrecking our base.
BTW he doesn't count chance to kill with his ulti followed by fury. He just tries to run away from enemy.

[squinte]

Yeah, the biggest issue for me is still the fact that he gets helm before anything else. I would delay the helm over just about everything else he buys.

Also not finishing Battle Fury by the end of mid game is pretty useless. When he has the components for it he should take courier priority to have them delivered. He wastes too much time farming up the Battle Fury for it to be of any use farming wise. If he farms up the Battle Fury first, he should be able to farm up the helm of the dominator relatively quickly. As it stands now he spends too much time early game getting an item that doesn't contribute enough to him farming more. Sure it gives him lifesteal, but battle fury has hp and mana regen, so he can maintain his health fairly easily with healing ward and the heal from battle fury without need for the helm. His farming speed is terribly slow early/mid game because of this.

[Karyoplasma]

Juggernaut is fine and very useful. Proof:
dota0008.jpg

Seriously, this is absurd. Is this guy autistic?

[JamesDrake]

Squinte beat me to it; moving Battle Fury up the order should help him get the farm he needs. Everything else should fall into place then.

[squinte]

I did an experiment with Juggernaut last night. Abusing Silencer's spells on the bots, I supported Juggernaut into a free farmed lane and he transitioned very well. In fact, he didn't get stopped at all and was very aggressive with his pushing. However, this was a Juggernaut with free farm with 2 enemies lacking any farm whatsoever. The likelihood of Juggernaut getting free farm like that is very unlikely in most cases of bots farming with other bots.

In my opinion he can get going once he has his items, he's just taking too long to get them.

[ChrisC]

I'm going to be working on Juggernaut bot in the near future -- trying to improve its early-game farm, adjusting item buy order, figuring out what's happening with the no-purchasing issue, etc.

[assteepee]

Just saw the update about the swapped buy order, thanks for listening chris! Very much appreciated!

[ChrisC]

That's what the forums are for!

We're still going to keep working on him, since of all the carries he seems like the one with the most trouble.

[Kant]

Played a game today with jug bot in my team.
Now he is farming his treads, then morbid mask and ring of regen on the lane.
After that he goes into woods and keeps farming the whole game there, farming battle fury at first and only then finishing his dominator.
And he doesn't act in any battles, only goes defend 1 vs 5 and dies.
That's sad

But thanks for the work on him

And sorry for my English.

[Django]

Yes, he's pretty much afk jungling entire game.

He should at least participate in fights when his ult is up.