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Why are the carry bots warding?

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  • #1

    Why are the carry bots warding?

    Greetings,

    I've been playing 1v1 mid against a friend of mine who is good at mid to practice various match-ups and we've both noticed something: Both our Bot carries are buying the observer wards for their team.

    I mean, why is dragon knight on my team, and skeleton king on his team, buying wards? They're carries! They have Lina, Bane, Zeus, and more of them,, all eager to take on the warding role but no, The carries purchase the wards.
    Why?

    We play with bots because it's funny. Like that one time, Invisible Tiny on my team stood next to my mid opponent (a real player) and just didn't do anything. I went in for the gank and he just backed.. and finally turned around to miss an avalanche. I was kinda confused. We also find it quite funny that our carry bots carry wards. We're like, GOOD JOB SKELETON KING, my carry is really being a good guy right now! WAY TO GO! :P

    Anyhow... why...?
    Tags: None
  • #2
    You do realize you only need 3 last hits in order to buy wards? If the supports don't, its a good thing the carry does!

    Comment

    • #3
      Finally a perfect opportunity for my copypasta: "You do realize carry's can buy wards after finishing their second rapier?"

      Comment

      • #4
        Originally posted by Zenethoric View Post
        Finally a perfect opportunity for my copypasta: "You do realize carry's can buy wards after finishing their second rapier?"
        Originally posted by halftheman View Post
        You do realize you only need 3 last hits in order to buy wards? If the supports don't, its a good thing the carry does!
        They use their 600 starting gold to buy wards. Starting gold that is very important to making sure they can get 3 last hits in the first place. (Of course, if the ward is to block the enemy team pulling and screwing over your laning as such, then it's still a good investment, but the bots don't comprehend this to begin with so in this case that's no argument)


        To address the actual issue here: It's a case exclusive to strength carries: Chaos Knight, Skeleton King and Dragon Knight. The specifics aren't too clear, but for whatever reason the AI in charge of setting up teams hates strength carries, and will rarely pick them.
        To fix this issue ChrisC (the one in charge of creating these bots) flagged them as Stun-Supports or something along those lines. I imagine the reason for their picking affects their overall behavior in the game, causing them to eagerly ward and whatnot for the team, after all that's why they were picked. I believe this is also why you often see Strength carries laning rather passively.
        Presumably this is a temporary fix, but it's a temporary fix that's been in the game for well over half a year now, and the progress on bots is rather disheartening, so I don't know when they'll stop doing this.
        But well.. Now you know!

        Additionally thinking about it again I find it odd that Sven and Kunkka are not affected by this issue... I don't know what they're flagged as but it sounds like it'd be better if they had the same flags as Sven and Kunkka, as they are picked frequently despite being strength carries and do not go about warding.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Zenethoric View Post
          Finally a perfect opportunity for my copypasta: "You do realize carry's can buy wards after finishing their second rapier?"
          That's the spirit! Now you can sig it

          On topic, starting items for bots are REALLY bad in general, they start with 2 sets of tangos instead of Tango+Salve, they don't save for bottle in mid, carrys don't spend their gold in +stat items early, they can't use the sideshop, etc.

          I could even make a topic about it and make the .cfgs for every developed bot with good itembuilds, but it will probably get ignored. Unless you read this ChrisC and want us community to help

          I don't know why they don't follow the recommended starting builds at least (although those are terrible in many cases too... Vengeful Spirit with 2 Slippers of Agility says Hi!)
          Last edited by Noya; 12-24-2012, 08:02 PM.
          ModDota | My GitHub Profile | My Project's Page

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Noya View Post
            I don't know why they don't follow the recommended starting builds at least (although those are terrible in many cases too... Vengeful Spirit with 2 Slippers of Agility says Hi!)
            Ursa with Magic Stick start says hi too!

            Anyway, I agree, their starting items are really horrible, I often see them start with just 2 sets of tangos and 2 clarities with 170 gold left, always makes me wonder why they don't just get some branches.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Noya View Post
              I could even make a topic about it and make the .cfgs for every developed bot with good itembuilds, but it will probably get ignored. Unless you read this ChrisC and want us community to help
              I've asked him numerous times and also asked him if he's perhaps working on dynamic item builds and as such doesn't want to waste time on the current ones, but I've never gotten a response.

              And since it's Christmas now I'm gonna guess we won't hear of him (or any Valve staff) till January 7th.


              But yes there are many improvements to be made to bot builds, both starting items and late game items. I mean Krob builds a Skadi after her Bloodstone... Adjusting their builds would make them a lot of the bots greatly more powerful.
              Heck even the skill builds of a number of heroes could see improvements.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by halftheman View Post
                You do realize you only need 3 last hits in order to buy wards? If the supports don't, its a good thing the carry does!
                In my opinion every last hit counts on a carry, and if you take into account the snowball effect, which means the results caused by the previous results, the 150 gold you spent isn't going to be helping you last hitting into the lane, which in turn will be harder to get last hits (including the 150 you still are behind), which will make you less geared toward your goal of carrying, which may make you less useful in any potential team fight, which may prevent you from getting a crucial kill (and goldz), and that kill might have then given you THAT gold which you needed to get a Battle Fury upgrade and whatnot, and then snowball.

                Every last hit counts on a carry, good carry players know that. 3 wasted last hit, plus the 150 gold of an item which should have been bought by a support, can make quite a difference in the long run.

                But yeah, to the point at hand, I simply found it funny. :P Bots are bots...

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                • #9
                  Dont flame ChrisC most updates u see in patches are bots updates.

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                  • #10
                    After last patch my bots just don't buy wards at first minute at all. Even if we have 2 supports

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                    • #11
                      If you have a situation like that, please screenshot it so I can see what heroes are involved (and what they have purchased).

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