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Bots= Too easy, Too unintelligent

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  • #16
    In solo training bots keep getting "STUCK" on thinking what to do... Example witch doctor after using stun just watches enemies killing him...

    edit. : its impossible to win with most of heros in training solo. Bots are too uninteligent diving towers on lvl 1 or die 1b1 not waiting for team to respawn.
    Last edited by eragon1111; 01-27-2013, 07:41 PM.


    • #17
      Originally posted by crustycleft View Post
      Seems every couple of months we get a thread complaining that either bots be easy or bots be hard, usually at the same time
      Truth is the bots are both easy AND hard depending on how you look at it but a couple of things are always going to be true.

      The bots really exist to prepare people for the rigors of pub games so they don't drive people to a heart attack in rage at the dumb things they do. New players take on bots and their jaw drops at how impossible it is to beat them. They cheat, they perfectly last hit, they chain stun to the milisecond...they're just unbeatable the new player laments and the reply is always the same.........



      Any half decent player with an understanding of dota will crush them but there's nothing you can really do to stop that. They can, and do, tweak the bots behavior in line with the community feedback but in the end without massive 'cheating' bonuses for the bots they'll never be able to compete against humans. The bots we have now aren't bad and I'm sure they'll improve more over time and no one wants to go back to the old 5 stuns, form up at 10 mins and 5 man push version of the bot AI.

      If you think there's a problem with the way the bots play that can be solved within reason then try suggesting how it can rather than simply posting 'OMG bots be bad' threads. The atmosphere in little corner of the forum is considerably more mature and far removed from the crying children you get in misc and while things may take a while and resources be limited the bots do get improved and they do listen to, and implement, our feedback.
      People think that the harder bots are too easy once they've played against them for long enough because then they're predictable. Newer players complain about bots being too hard because they're trying to learn the basics of the game, and don't know what all the heroes do. So they feed, and then even easy bots annihilate without any trouble. The whole sentiment that new players should have a crappy time against easy bots is a terrible one. Just because one person died 4 times in an easy match shouldn't mean that it's a guaranteed loss while the other players are picking up the slack. There's two problems here: 1. That most players don't look up guides on how to play before playing, and instantly go into matchmaking, I'd assume most against bots. 2. That there's no tutorial in place. Every game I play, there's someone who says "This is my first time playing" or "I don't know what to do." and I try to explain it to them. They usually do okay, but inevitably die a few times, and suddenly Sniper Bot has a shadowblade and is impossible to kill. This game will be released some day, and be F2P, and to tell everyone who downloads it "LEARN TO PLAY" in their first match is going to turn a lot of people away. You need to ease people into the game instead of throwing a ton of mechanics at them and tell them to stop sucking.

      My particular issue against bots is that they never separate. They are always together in a 5 man at about 10 minutes on, which is super hard to counter for a brand new player, especially because of my second point: Stuns. Every bot match has at least 3 or 4 stuns, and they are perfect at chaining them, even on easy. Most players choose a hero at random, and most of the time there's maybe 1 stun on the whole team. If anyone is alone for any amount of time, last hitting creeps, they're all but guaranteed dead from 4 stuns hitting in succession plus nukes. Team fights are impossible to win against nukes and stuns on enemy bots, especially if anyone on your team has died at any moment before. This leads to the bots winning (on easy), or lots of players leaving when they've died in their fountain for the nth time. This is a far cry from passive bots, that don't even use abilities.

      Easy bots need to have some margin for error, and something that makes them to decide not to use an ability they normally would have. Chain stunning is not fun on the receiving end, so maybe make it so bots decide not to stun for x seconds after a stun wears off, or uses it too early for a perfect chain. Maybe make them miss their AoE abilities a little more, like silence or warlock's golem. Bots also have a tendency to teleport to any tower that is under attack the moment there's a hero in range of it. It's really quite annoying to finally get through enemy creeps to a tower only to have 5 heroes waiting for you or mid teleport. I usually either go to another lane or jungle, but lo and behold they're waiting at the next tower every single time. This is useful to get bots to stop attacking your towers, but makes it nigh impossible to push theirs unless you have 3 heroes with escapes on your teams pushing all 3 at once.

      TL;DR - Easy bots are too hard for brand new players because they always 5 man gank and chain stuns perfectly. They also teleport at the drop of a hat, meaning players will have constant (usually negative, if they fed) interaction with said bots. Passive bots should be for learning how to last hit and buy items, Easy should be for learning everything else. This is really hard against a Bot Sniper with Treads, Manta, BKB, Desolator, and Daedalus, and other similarly geared "Easy" bots.

      OP only shows how easy bots are against other bots with an experienced wild card thrown in. If he looked at new players (Which is what bots should be for) put against 5 bots, he would see it's not too easy for everyone.