Friendly bots are blatantly feeding the enemy bot team

[kenobi90]

This is how this went: Ever since the second last DOTA2 update that happened as of this moment (2/13/2013), the friendly bots have been suicidal. I decided to test out the Bountyhunter hero, so I created a Medium Bot only match, and had to quit it because the enemy team was getting about 1 kill per minute, if not more, and were ridiculously more powerful than I, and that happened again for 5 more times, until I finally got a match were my bots weren't being stupid (By the way, all the deaths in those 6 matches were of bots, and almost none of them were of the bot laning with me, so it was not me being a bad player). So, I quit the game for a while and go do other stuff, and today, I decide to try out the Drow Ranger, and the exact same thing happened again. The friendly bots on the other lanes are just feeding themselves to the enemy, and it's pissing me off. Whatever happened with their AI, it has to be reversed, and it has to be something done on purpose, bots only screw up on purpose (programmed flubbs by the bot so the player will have a chance), or by a glitch, and I highly doubt a glitch this blatant is just punching me in the face all the time. And the enemy team is not dying, at all, so, again, either someone at the dev team messed around with the friendly bot AI, or this is a really specific bug. Also, support bots are not healing me when I actually need it, only when I took about 50 damage and still have nearly full health. I did check the DOTA2 files with Steam, so it's not like my game broke and that's why the bots are being useless. Sorry for the anger in this, but if there is one thing I do not accept in the games I play is unfairness, and the bots have no excuse to be playing like complete idiots when they are on the same difficulty as the enemy team. And, to finish this rant that wants simply answers on what the heck is going on, here's a confused face, followed by an angry face

[KlausKinski]

Bots have hivemind so they play worse when there's someone missing for their 5 man strat (human player)

Solutions

a) suggest your bots to pick Viper. Bots will always feed Viper, guaranteed no-challenge game.

b) play with friends

c) get better, don't lane with bots and take the mid lane (aka dominating the bots if you're decent)

[kenobi90]

Bots have hivemind so they play worse when there's someone missing for their 5 man strat (human player)

Solutions

a) suggest your bots to pick Viper. Bots will always feed Viper, guaranteed no-challenge game.

b) play with friends

c) get better, don't lane with bots and take the mid lane (aka dominating the bots if you're decent)

I didn't know of the first one, so thanks for the tip, also, I don't have any friends to play with, all the people I know either don't play this, are freaking Call of Duty fanboys (If you want to get REALLY angry, try playing with one of those, I think even Ghandi would want to kill someone after such an experience), or refuse to play DOTA2 because it's not League of Legends =\

Oh, or won't play with me cause I'm not very good at this game. *sigh*

And I guess I should've tried going mid, but I just tend to do best when with someone, specially as Jakiro on top.

[DarkLite]

Yeah, bots will feed whenever against Viper or Venomancer - I don't think they understand damage-over-time abilities properly.

[rat-ct]

Huskar is a good choice against bots, if you pick broodmother, you will regret it.

[kenobi90]

Huskar is a good choice against bots, if you pick broodmother, you will regret it.

I kinda decided to pick Broodmother, just to kinda see what you meant by it, and, vs. medium bots, 20-1-15 was my score. Not sure what you meant by that, maybe you mean "If you tell friendly bots to use Broodmother".

[assteepee]

He means broodmother is horribly bugged with bots, because of their behavior with invisibility. You can take advantage of their weird yet predictable behavior, or be ridiculously annoyed with not being able to properly practice the hero.

[Karyoplasma]

To add something to the topic:
I feel that the OP has a point. It is very hard to convince your bots to play more passive when you are in a disadvantageous position. They always will initiate stupid fights without you (the human player) being in proximity and they will try to push as 2 or 3 just to be obliterated while the remainder of the bots jungles. The junglers then usually proceed to trickle into the enemy deathball 1 by 1 leaving the human player to defend the base on his own. It is even hard to defend when your bots somehow manage to be alive to defend the base because -as far as I observed- they refuse to use their spells/fight properly against enemies that are more farmed than themselves. I've had countless scenarios like this: A CK/WD combo is pushing mid while 3 of my bots are alive. I ping CK to make the bots use their spells on them, but no avail. They just run up to them and feed. I think it's because they are too afraid of starting a fight or just consider the hero I am pinging as too hard to kill even when we got a clear shot at doing so. "The only thing I expect from the bots is to listen to my commands as if they were the words of God."

[Peachrocks]

To add something to the topic:
I feel that the OP has a point. It is very hard to convince your bots to play more passive when you are in a disadvantageous position. They always will initiate stupid fights without you (the human player) being in proximity and they will try to push as 2 or 3 just to be obliterated while the remainder of the bots jungles. The junglers then usually proceed to trickle into the enemy deathball 1 by 1 leaving the human player to defend the base on his own.

Yup this is a big problem. Bots have no respect for being outnumbered sometimes and pinging I've found honestly only makes it worse. Then once the 2vs5 fight starts, they get slaughtered and then walk in and die one at a time. Sometimes bots who didn't contribute to the fight go 'Hey guyz, I'm gunna push all by myself and die when three enemies surround me'

Edit: Was playing just now a fairly enjoyable game as Crystal Maiden going 8-2-10 until team fights started going to hell. This is a lesser example, typically all the bots would die to the same trick.

I pause because I know a team fight is looming and based on what rubbish had happened until then I knew this was a perfect time to get the camera out.

The plan: I give the bots the benefit of the doubt, who knows what might happen this time? I am with Drow on the right hand side of where the fight is to take place. Lina, Chaos Knight and Witch Doctor are ready to engage at top. There is only three of them there and Viper their key attacker is not present, we have fairly good odds here. When they push the tower and Chaos/Lina/WD retreat back, they will be trapped between the five of us and die horribly.

What actually happens: Chaos Knight runs in suicidally, gets silenced and focused down. Kunnka sends in a boat and nails WD and Lina (up until then this had been nailing everyone but me and then everyone got torrented), WD decides to go in anyway and gets focused down. At this point I'm just going to try harass and get out to save whoever survives but I don't realize Lina is in full retreat by this point (and for good reason to be fair) then I get shreded to pieces. What was Drow doing this whole time? Rather than group up with me, she decides to farm their jungle... well done Drow!

Edit edit: Sorry but seeing as my internet connection is a bit inconsistent I've been forced to play the bots a bit. I do anyway but games like this really really frustrate me. Look at how many times my bots died versus them and the amount of gold some of them had on them... I mean seriously!? I'm amazed I held out as long as I did

Bots like to feed.png

A lowlight in the match was this. Seeing as the team was obviously feeding like crazy with well over double digit deaths early on and the game looked in trouble, I decided to try Divine Rapier, kill Roshan (2 of them were dead) and get immortality seeing as Medusa is pretty damn tanky, even with all this going on, I had the fewest deaths of anybody on either team. Unfortunately, Tiny comes in last minute to 'help' then steals the immortality while I'm trying to drop my bottle @[email protected] He 'died' literally 10 seconds later...

I end up losing the Rapier due to the entire team fountain diving me and getting away with it, to be fair I've never seen anything like it from the bots and it was a good call from their side as they weren't going to die unless someone from my team bought in.

Tiny is a selfish dick.png

[SkittlesAreYum]

Bots have hivemind so they play worse when there's someone missing for their 5 man strat (human player)

I'm not convinced it's that simple. I often play with my friend in bot games, leaving three bots on our team. One of the bots will suicide into a 5 man push, while the other two aren't there. If it's humans messing up their hive mind, wouldn't it instead be three bots suiciding against five?

[Arxos]

I'm not convinced it's that simple. I often play with my friend in bot games, leaving three bots on our team. One of the bots will suicide into a 5 man push, while the other two aren't there. If it's humans messing up their hive mind, wouldn't it instead be three bots suiciding against five?

Well the problem is that they don't have a hivemind if their team isn't complete. It just seems to not be there at all, which results in them making individual choices which they're (evidently) terrible at. It's why I'd like to get rid of the hivemind, with the hivemind removed we'd be able to identify issues better, as there wouldn't be a disparity between enemy and allied bot behavior. On top of that, the hivemind is the cause of many more issues like the continuous 5-man Dota.

[Radio]

I think the hivemind hypothesis is far-fetched. They are just stupid.

[tumbla]

Bots have hivemind so they play worse when there's someone missing for their 5 man strat (human player)

Solutions

a) suggest your bots to pick Viper. Bots will always feed Viper, guaranteed no-challenge game.

b) play with friends

c) get better, don't lane with bots and take the mid lane (aka dominating the bots if you're decent)

I think C is the most important; it's very easy to solo mid against any of the bots. I would also add not to play supports, as supporting bots is not ideal as it allows their stupidity to fuck things up. If you pick a hero with solo game impact, you can usually win unless the bots are feeding ridiculously heavily + you have much worse team comp.

[Peachrocks]

I think C is the most important; it's very easy to solo mid against any of the bots. I would also add not to play supports, as supporting bots is not ideal as it allows their stupidity to fuck things up. If you pick a hero with solo game impact, you can usually win unless the bots are feeding ridiculously heavily + you have much worse team comp.

Thing is this is true with humans too, which might make the bots ideal for practicing support. Nothing quite like having a team of 4 carries and 'what's a courier' and feeling forced to play support then watching your 'partner' walk into death over and over. That said, I do agree that bots tend to function worse with a human 'babysitting' them but on the other hand I've seen Luna and CK have horrible farm (less than their bot 'babysitters') and then proceed to feed the rest of the game and this was in an all bot game.

That said, going mid with any hero and having a solid farm and/or ganking phase should give at least passable results. Sometimes the bots feed horribly and there's little you can do, maybe a much better player than me can win after the bots leave me with a 10-70 in kill scores despite my 6 kills and zero deaths at that time. Some of the rubbish I saw that game was... horrific. 'Oh look there's a team fight, let's all run into DP's ultimate and die one at a time' over and over again.

[Radio]

I think C is the most important; it's very easy to solo mid against any of the bots. I would also add not to play supports, as supporting bots is not ideal as it allows their stupidity to fuck things up. If you pick a hero with solo game impact, you can usually win unless the bots are feeding ridiculously heavily + you have much worse team comp.

I completely disagree, carrying the bots as support is really easy since they won't contest your pulls and you can just kill them repeatedly in lane 'cause you're like 3 levels above 'em and they're constantly exposed to ganks. I usually get so fat I can easily brute force carry as CM / Enchantress. The main problem is playing hard carries which is the worst possible scenario imaginable unless you exploit their AI. If I have to test stuff I feel better farming pulls than farming against an impossible lane with a full wand charged up 24/7 and 80 stuns and a support that does nothing short of griefing.

It honestly seems like there's one AI that handles both sides, and decides that the enemy bots will get a kill on your bots because you're too farmed / too leveled and the game wants to restore balance. Same reason why the enemy bots will always 5 man gank the human player at 6 minutes (at least that's always been the case for me).

Also it seems like the enemy bots save everything they have for you, the human player, and they will basically chase you around all the time (?) no matter what hero you're playing. This should damage their economy horribly because they spend 90% of their time roaming as 5 trying to gank the human player, but I guess they cheat on XP / gold.

If you play mid you can disrupt this whole thing and gank the enemy team over and over with the level advantage which seems to completely tilt the enemy bots and leads to scores like 50-1 in your favor. Your bots also become a lot more responsive / aggressive which is really weird, they just act smarter and follow up on your moves etc.

If I play a hard carry like PA my support will do 0 harass on the enemy melee (while I get harassed continuously) will feed 3-4 kills right off the bat, every single time in the same exact way, then leave my lane and just walk around the map doing nothing, come back with a 3-4 levels disadvantage, feed more, then come back, push the lane and feed more. Then the enemy bots just gather as 5 and take T1 to barracks completely uncontested, with the allied bots just running repeatedly into 'em. Also the fact your bot spams whatever skill he has all the time in lane, if that skill is spammable (e.g. venge wave of terror, dazzle shadow wave, whatever pushes the lane basically), the enemy bots are unbeatable 'cause they constantly have 15 wand charges.