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Bot reaction times on Hard difficulty

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  • Bot reaction times on Hard difficulty

    I'm not sure what the bot reaction times are supposed to be for Hard difficulty (the sticky only lists "Normal", and at 50-75 ms). But sometimes it seems way too fast. An example: I blink onto a Sven running away. He stuns me before my button-mashing manages to even begin casting Warstomp. I click the Blink Dagger and promptly spam T, yet he instantly stuns me. I don't even think the blink animation had finished before the Storm Bolt hit.

    This would be fine for Unfair, but it seems a bit odd for Hard. Dendi himself wouldn't be able to react as fast as the Sven bot did. The purpose of bots is to simulate playing against humans, yet no human could pull this off. Perhaps the lower range for the reaction time needs to be increased.

  • #2
    It's just timing, when you're chasing sven he'll stun you as soon as storm hammer's off cooldown, and you happened to blink right into it. Also I'm not sure if you're talking about hoof stomp (q) or stampede (r), but hoofstomp has quite the casting animation, at a close distance if you and sven each activated your abilities at the same time I'd wager hammer hits first. In other words you could also be more successful with spells that have a fast cast animation.

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    • #3
      This is 0 sec reaction time
      Get used to it ;btw no player in the world can do such ninja things!
      My English is not great and i know it

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      • #4
        The reaction time is pretty horrible, even on Hard. I remeber quite a few times, I'd blink into a group and mash Ravage, but I'd be stunned to hell and back the split second I blinked in.

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        • #5
          We'll be making some adjustments to reaction times for next week's update.

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          • #6
            Yeah, bots do things like that, but I think the most annoying between all is when you're playing as pudge, they manage to avoid the hook even when you hook from fog, they step back for a sec and keep walking. Anyways, I don't think it's a big problem. Just for pudge and stuff.

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            • #7
              Even the Tidebot has this problem actually. I have seen an allied tide blink into a group of 5 trying to ravage only to be stunlocked and instagibbed instead. Poor bastard

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              • #8
                Originally posted by ChrisC View Post
                We'll be making some adjustments to reaction times for next week's update.
                That's nice to hear ChrisC ; I'm a fan of bots
                Keep up the good work to make them more real and better
                My English is not great and i know it

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by assteepee View Post
                  Even the Tidebot has this problem actually. I have seen an allied tide blink into a group of 5 trying to ravage only to be stunlocked and instagibbed instead. Poor bastard
                  I can confirm that Tidebot is a poor bastard.

                  ...Oh and this does happen to him.
                  This ain't ova.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by assteepee View Post
                    It's just timing, when you're chasing sven he'll stun you as soon as storm hammer's off cooldown, and you happened to blink right into it. Also I'm not sure if you're talking about hoof stomp (q) or stampede (r), but hoofstomp has quite the casting animation, at a close distance if you and sven each activated your abilities at the same time I'd wager hammer hits first. In other words you could also be more successful with spells that have a fast cast animation.
                    It's possible he was looking to stun anyway, but in that case his "retargeting time" was way too quick. I know Hoofstomp has a big casting time, but I didn't even start it. It was Blink->Storm Hammer To Face as immediately as you can imagine.

                    Good to hear there will be updates!

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                    • #12
                      Originally posted by assteepee View Post
                      Even the Tidebot has this problem actually. I have seen an allied tide blink into a group of 5 trying to ravage only to be stunlocked and instagibbed instead. Poor bastard
                      I can confirm this as well. It kinda makes the game almost impossible to play because of the 0 second reaction time. XD

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                      • #13
                        Regarding Tide not getting his ulti off: Never experienced this problem and I do not see how this could ever happen. If you cast ravage right after your blink, there are only very few heroes in dota who could stop its .3 sec cast time (where no target/turning-time is to be added since it is non-target) even with perfect reaction time.

                        As far as currently implemented heroes go, I think only ES should be able to cancel a blink-ravage with his ultimate+aftershock. Everyone else has .3 cast time + travel/turning time.
                        If it is indeed the case that a Tide bot fails to ravage after blink, then there probably is something wrong with his coding and he fails to cast it instantly after initiating which could probably be solved by scripting a shift-queue ravage into his blink-initiations.

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                        • #14
                          Originally posted by Morlic View Post
                          Regarding Tide not getting his ulti off: Never experienced this problem and I do not see how this could ever happen.
                          You can see their reaction times if you play TA and Trap + Blink + Meld combo on someone, if they have dust they'll pop it instantly as you meld strike. I think that's like a 0.1 second window or something? :P Of course it's s innocuous in this case, but when you play heroes like Puck and you get instantly chainstunned when you blink + rift in it's kind of unrealistic.
                          Last edited by Radio; 02-27-2013, 05:51 AM.

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                          • #15
                            It's not so much that they don't have spells that can interrupt shorter spells. It's that they somehow know where/when someone is going to use an ability after blinking. For instance, Tidehunter blinks in from the fog of war. Sniper Enemy attacks Tidehunter instantly after he blinks in, procing Headshot. Tidehunter is chain-stunned and can't do anything about it. Not that this can't happen, but that it never doesn't happen if Sniper's Headshot procs.

                            I mentioned this before, where the bots all seem to have the same calculations. They need more variance when it comes to selecting targets during fights. It's really unrealistic that I can walk into an ongoing team-fight and jump to the number one priority of every enemy hero.

                            I know on unfair it's sort of the point to make it harder for the human players, but enemies often throw away leads or advantages (I have examples below) because they see a human player and immediately want to focus that player down. The overall problem with this behavior is that Dota is a team based game and wanting to focus a specific person every time they show up to a fight, regardless of the current situation in said fight and without taking into account the effects of their target's spells is generally considered selfish play. I understand focusing specific heroes because of skill/abilities that are integral to winning team fights is great. However, I have a few of examples I would like to show as to how this is also really bad behavior.

                            Example1: Human played Earthshaker without Farm, and Fissure & Echo Slam on cooldown. Earthshaker is higher priority than a half health Luna bot who still has her ultimate in the middle of a team-fight without any survivability items. The enemies will focus the human Earthshaker, providing Luna bot either enough time to escape or pop her ultimate out of range of creeps (not that she actually does get out of creep range). Quite obviously the Luna is the bigger threat, but Earthshaker is the focus because it's human controlled.

                            Example2: Two bots on the enemy team were chasing two bots on my team. I show up behind them and as soon as I walk out of the fog. The enemies immediately focus me, completely forgetting that the two heroes they were chasing were almost dead and forgetting that they were also both almost dead. If I can survive their initial onslaught, I will get a double kill every time when the enemies could have secured 2 kills.

                            Example3: Early game I provoke enemies while standing close to my tower. They decide it's a good idea to dive in together, ignoring creeps, other heroes and towers. They don't take into account that I might have a disable. They also don't take into account that an allied bot or myself can easily stop them in their tracks directly under our tower, forcing them to take excessive amounts of tower damage. This can be an easy first blood with Windrunner if you powershot harass, kite to your tower, shackle to creeps/trees and right click for first blood.

                            I feel like enemies reserve their spells until humans show up to fight, even though they're the last hero to the fight. I will easily die even though I was of no immediate threat to the other team yet.

                            Another example: I walk out of fog of war and Tiny blinks from the front line directly onto me during an ongoing team fight. That says bots on both teams focus the same heroes during team fights a majority of the time if it's very close quarters. Blink Dagger should be on cool down quite often during team fights, but someone like Tiny can blink out of the front line of the fight and avalanche + toss me before I even get into proximity of the fight. If I'm not squishy enough to die to the combo, the rest of his team is right behind him ready to focus the rest of my HP down. Either that or he gets the combo off, but dies to creeps+tower+hero damage because he stupidly dove way too deep.

                            That's not bad behavior IF I'm integral part of the team fight, meaning that without my abilities my bots would have no chance at winning at all. In this case, focusing the same target can be beneficial. However, the fact remains that they're always attacking the same target regardless of abilities/positioning/farm, and would rather all focus the same target that is highest on priority target. That's extremely stupid. Bots without mobility spells/items (blink/force staff/phase etc..)will walk through the entire team fight to their highest priority target. They throw all other logic out the window, tanking creeps, towers, and heroes that were focusing them before their priority was changed to you. You basically have a very small window to do something crazy before 5 heroes start crapping out tons of damage.
                            Last edited by squinte; 03-01-2013, 01:48 PM.
                            This ain't ova.

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