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[Duplicate] Earthshaker blocking lane creeps then releasing for mega creep wave

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  • [Duplicate] Earthshaker blocking lane creeps then releasing for mega creep wave

    Match ID: 306780372

    Earthshaker blocks creeps into a small forest area on Radiant side top lane, near T2 tower. He then releases them later on to autowin a tower. (and the only reason we were able to stop the push from taking the T2 and possibly the T3 was that we had KOTL's illuminate)

    He thinks it's legit, I think it's abuse.

    Your opinions?

    Bug Report:

    Summary:
    Earthshaker blocks creeps with fissure, the creeps then walk into a created long path nearby in the trees and get stuck there, repeated until he runs out of mana, then the creeps are unleashed and push towards the enemy base.

    Repro Steps:
    1) Pick Earthshake
    2) buy quelling blade + clarities
    3) create long path in trees on the left side of the top lane Radiant side with a dead-end
    4) block creeps with fissure as they arrive
    5) creeps walk into long path (??)
    6) creeps find the dead-end and stand still
    7) repeat step 4), refilling mana with clarities
    8) when mana runs out, allow the creeps to escape, creating a massive creepwave

    Result:
    Massive creepwave which destroys towers in its path, impossible for an underlevelled lane to cope with, hard for an entire team to deal with depending on picks, luckily we had KOTL in our team...

    Expected Result:
    1) The creeps should not walk into the long path area because it is a dead-end.

    2) When they reach the dead-end they should attempt to find new pathing, considering the hero as a temporary obstacle and thus pushing against him if no other path is available.

    Oh and I'd like the Earthshaker banned for exploit abuse kthx
    Last edited by Yosharian; 09-15-2013, 05:03 AM.

  • #2
    If you can do the same in WC3 then there's nothing to discuss.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Noo View Post
      If you can do the same in WC3 then there's nothing to discuss.
      i think it has to do with this bug http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=50386 (or am i wrong?)

      also lane creeps in dota1 would stay still in cogs/fissure while in dota 2 they follow the path of fissure
      Last edited by Jan2011; 09-15-2013, 03:10 AM.
      If you find spelling errors, you are free to take them.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Noo View Post
        If you can do the same in WC3 then there's nothing to discuss.
        you used to be able to do this as well:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-oQ6pXbNCI

        but ofc if u can do it, it's balanced! Fuck logic!

        Originally posted by Jan2011 View Post
        i think it has to do with this bug http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=50386 (or am i wrong?)

        also lane creeps in dota1 would stay still in cogs/fissure while in dota 2 they follow the path of fissure
        Quite possibly, yes
        Last edited by Yosharian; 09-15-2013, 03:18 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Noo View Post
          If you can do the same in WC3 then there's nothing to discuss.
          No, it's different in DotA1. They only take other paths, if the path is really open and is in a certain range

          Originally posted by Jan2011 View Post
          i think it has to do with this bug http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=50386 (or am i wrong?)

          also lane creeps in dota1 would stay still in cogs/fissure while in dota 2 they follow the path of fissure
          Yes, that's different. That thread is about units not finding open paths. Thi is about creeps taking paths which seem open, but are actually not. Only seems to happen with longer paths.


          This is how creeps do it in DotA1.




          If they don't see any open path nearby, they just stop there until a path is open.
          Last edited by bu3ny; 09-15-2013, 03:37 AM.
          Please, just call me buny.

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes, the pathing doesn't look far enough into the future to detect that the path is actually a dead-end. It needs to be fixed, this was basically a free tower for their lane, and complete denial of XP for several minutes for our solo.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by bu3ny View Post
              No, it's different in DotA1. They only take other paths, if the path is really open and is in a certain range
              Wrong. I thought so too, but did you test it? I just did and in fact they trap themselves in there. It takes ~2 seconds until they decide to move in, the collision of the trees seem to be smaller and you need to remove some trees to create an "alternative moving path", a small gap isn't enough, making it harder to find a good spot, but it WORKS.
              WC3ScrnShot_091513_153043_01.jpg

              EDIT: Btw, no, there was no gap. They were patroling from the end of the spot to me.
              If you think I've closed or deleted a post unjustified, feel free to PM me and I'll explain it to you/discuss it with you further.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Kryil- View Post
                Wrong. I thought so too, but did you test it? I just did and in fact they trap themselves in there. It takes ~2 seconds until they decide to move in, the collision of the trees seem to be smaller and you need to remove some trees to create an "alternative moving path", a small gap isn't enough, making it harder to find a good spot, but it WORKS.
                [ATTACH]18384[/ATTACH]

                EDIT: Btw, no, there was no gap. They were patroling from the end of the spot to me.

                Yes, I tested it. A few went sometimes in, but they never stand inside there. They walked back and forth, until the fissure disapperead and then walked out and taking the normal path again. They don't idle in the dead end like in Dota2.
                They also never moved all the way to the end of that closed path as I tried it.

                They don't go there because they see it as a possible path, they just try to get as close as possible to their next way point. If the closest point happen to be in the closed path you have created, they'll go in there until they are as close as possible and then just face their next way point. And as said already, they won't idle there after the fissure is gone.
                Last edited by bu3ny; 09-15-2013, 07:03 AM.
                Please, just call me buny.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by bu3ny View Post
                  but whats all the white stuff?!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Can't you see? I wrote it there in white.
                    Please, just call me buny.

                    Comment


                    • #11

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It's a known issue.
                        Comprehensive Damage Reduction & Amplifications Dota 2 Guide

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          So are we pinning this so it can get fixed? Or am I to expect this every time I see an ES now?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            In dota1 there are other ways to disrupt creeps' pathing with shaker, including pulls through the whole jungle. Luminous had a vid about it, but there are lots of his channels, can't find any of those.

                            Edit: this thread is on page 1 again and I actually found it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6pjmQccFzs

                            "Abuse"? Well, if you care to explain how is this a good tactic outside of wood tier, maybe. If someone pulls, shaker is left lvl1 while the pulling guy not only grabs XP but denies every wave while shaker's waves are preserved (resulting in shaker lvl1, pulling guy lvl from pulls + lvl from the released creepwaves). If anyone goes there to disrupt pulling, it leaves the other lane in a 2v3 situation (depends on laning).

                            Not even talking about the possibility to kill that lvl1 shaker when no waves are coming / chop the trees.

                            If you somehow managed to get your pull blocked as radiant and get shaker in the offlane + miss both sentries(very unlikely), chop his trees.

                            There are 2 dire pull spots (big camp / med camp) and a small camp (if ranged. 3/5 small camps are ranged.) 100% camps can be pulled to grab a HUGE advantage from top wave + preserved creeps that will come, sooner or later.

                            This "abuse" is as crippled as furion cliff-jungling, good sirs. As for inconsistency with DotA, fountainhooks are changed, this is changed too. If this gets fixed, we run into a situation of having to fix ES's old blocks (creeps running all the way through the jungle, allowing ES to pull the waves) which is unlikely to happen.
                            Last edited by Caleb; 09-21-2013, 04:46 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              So nobody cares about this bug then, it's not going to be fixed. That's fine, I'm going to start abusing it in publics. No other way to get people to pay attention, I guess.

                              Comment

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