[Confirmed] 2 Earth Spirit bugs

[Danat]

Playing Earth Spirit a lot in Dota1, I've noticed the following bugs in Dota2:

1. Rolling Boulder doesnt give flying vision.
   
   http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Earth_Spirit
   

   Notes:
   
   The boulder moves at a speed of 800, 1600 when using a Stone Remnant.
   This skill will always go the full distance, you cannot choose a shorter distance. It stops on the opposite side of the first hero it impacts. The Stone Remnant is consumed when used as a boost for rolling.
   Gives Kaolin flying vision.

   Dota1:
   
   
   
   
   
   Dota2:
   
   
2. Rolling Boulder + Remnant distance calculation is wrong:
   • If you place Remnant at the start of the Rolling Boulder path, you travel a total of 1600 distance (correct)
   • If you place Remnant at the end of the Rolling Boulder path, you travel a total of 2100 distance (wrong but cool ) Fixed
3. Stone Remnant ability doesn't work when Kaolin is silenced. Works in Dota1, but not in Dota2. This is a repost from my other thread.

[imxtrabored]

Who writes the Wiki... This stuff is almost totally made-up. Rolling Boulder does not grant Flying vision (unless you count 75/75 as actual vision), and has never done so.

[Danat]

Who writes the Wiki... This stuff is almost totally made-up. Rolling Boulder does not grant Flying vision (unless you count 75/75 as actual vision), and has never done so.

You have no idea what you are talking about:

[stenliii]

Since Dota 2 is the main game now, things that happen in DotA1 ARE BUGS. Not in Dota 2.

[Danat]

Since Dota 2 is the main game now, things that happen in DotA1 ARE BUGS. Not in Dota 2.

lol so 2100 Rolling Boulder distance with a Remnant (instead of always 1600 as in Dota1) is a feature in Dota2 ? And all those other bugs in this section about Earth Spirit (like Magnetic Grip targeting buildings, Rolling Boulder teleportation when stunned, etc.) that didnt exist in Dota1 are features too right ?
Not.

[Shamanics]

lol so 2100 Rolling Boulder distance with a Remnant (instead of always 1600 as in Dota1) is a feature in Dota2 ? And all those other bugs in this section about Earth Spirit (like Magnetic Grip targeting buildings, Rolling Boulder teleportation when stunned, etc.) that didnt exist in Dota1 are features too right ?
Not.

Yes, everything in dota 2 is a feature, WC3 is now trying to imitate dota 2 so if there is any discrepancy it is a bug in WC3, if there is anything that does not match the expected behaviour of an skill in dota 2 it is a feature, not a bug.

[rockonrob]

The second bug is pretty funny but is calculated incorrectly. In dota 1, it would speed you up when you hit the remnant (right?), but in dota 2 it is calculated beforehand if you will hit a remnant or not. It would have been extremely difficult in Wc3 editor to create the same functionality it has right now and the remnant would be destroyed before rolling over it. It is nice that it is calculated beforehand if you will hit it or not, but the speedup should occur after. Also, it is very strange how the choosing of the remnant to be destroyed in the path of the boulder works. I have had times where the farthest remnant was destroyed when rolling over the first one.

[imxtrabored]

Oh yeah. Forgot about the Bear Form vision bug that happens (because Icefrog made Rolling Boulder a transformation skill...). Still, if you would actually experiment with the skill, you would find that it doesn't always give you the full amount of vision. Officially, you get flying vision "at the same time" as your vision becomes 75/75 (and you get the ground vision dummy). Realistically, you would have to port in the Bear Form bug as well as the slower vision updating cycles to Dota 2 to reproduce this effect.

[Danat]

In dota 1, it would speed you up when you hit the remnant (right?)

Yes, but this is the same in Dota2. Do not confuse with the total distance traveled

but in dota 2 it is calculated beforehand if you will hit a remnant or not.

No it doesnt work like that. Try it in lobby with 2 Kaloins - one casts Rolling Boulder and the other places Remnant on the end of its path in the last moment. Only when you encounter the Remnant, the speed and distance are added. Like I said, in Dota2 the length of your Rolling Boulder path will vary depending on how early/late in the path the Remnant is rolled over. It's 800 without Remnant and a range from 1600 to 2100 which you can control by placing Remnants in the right location, which I consider a bug since the distance should always be increased by 100% (800 + 100% = 1600)

Also, it is very strange how the choosing of the remnant to be destroyed in the path of the boulder works. I have had times where the farthest remnant was destroyed when rolling over the first one.

Hmm never noticed anything like this. Maybe I just got used to placing only one Remnant most of the time when using Rolling Boulder.

[Danat]

Oh yeah. Forgot about the Bear Form vision bug that happens (because Icefrog made Rolling Boulder a transformation skill...)

Transformation skill should evade stuns during transformation iirc, but this doesnt happen with Earth Spirit. Flying vision can be granted without this anyway.

Still, if you would actually experiment with the skill, you would find that it doesn't always give you the full amount of vision.

I don't think I ever had problems with flying vision not appearing. Even if it doesn't give you full amount of vision on rare occasions, I dont think I would suffer from that - most of the time I just need to see what is happening on the high-ground near me as Im about to move there via Rolling Boulder and full amount of vision is not required there.

Realistically, you would have to port in the Bear Form bug as well as the slower vision updating cycles to Dota 2 to reproduce this effect.

This is not really required. Batrider has flying vision in Dota2 without this, and the way it works with him should be ok for Kaolin.

[imxtrabored]

Have you ever wondered why Rubick can't steal Rolling Boulder? It's a transformation ability. The unit Earth Spirit transforms into has 75/75 flying vision. Icefrog helpfully gives him a ground vision dummy with 1800/800 vision, but apparently his efforts ought to have gone to waste here.

The "way it works for Batrider" is it turns him into a unit with 1400/800 (or whatever the values were) vision. That method won't work here. There's more crucial vision bugs that could be ported anyways, like the ability to ward Roshan...

[Danat]

The "way it works for Batrider" is it turns him into a unit with 1400/800 (or whatever the values were) vision. That method won't work here.

It doesnt matter how its coded - if FireFly grants flying vision for Batrider in Dota2, the same thing can be applied to Earth Spirit. Unless you're a Valve developer you shouldn't say things like granting flying vision to a hero "won't work" on Dota2 engine, especially without providing good arguments.

[imxtrabored]

Okay, look. There's three options here.
Code it like it was coded in DotA 1, following Icefrog's intent. Earth Spirit gets 75/75 flying vsion, standard ground vision. No more.
Change the code so it follows your new vision of Dota 2.
Code it like DotA 1, change Dota 2's vision mechanics to include the slow update time from DotA 1, and re-introduce the transformation bug.

[Danat]

Okay, look. There's three options here.
Code it like it was coded in DotA 1, following Icefrog's intent. Earth Spirit gets 75/75 flying vsion, standard ground vision. No more.
Change the code so it follows your new vision of Dota 2.
Code it like DotA 1, change Dota 2's vision mechanics to include the slow update time from DotA 1, and re-introduce the transformation bug.

That's only your options. Valve devs are not limited to those. And I actually don't really care how exactly the devs will fix the lack of flying vision. The simplest way in my opinion is to make it work the same way as with Batrider when he uses FireFly ability.

[Caleb]

That's only your options. Valve devs are not limited to those. And I actually don't really care how exactly the devs will fix the lack of flying vision. The simplest way in my opinion is to make it work the same way as with Batrider when he uses FireFly ability.

You get that amount of flying vision because of transformation bugs. Try it out multiple times and notice that you don't always get it.

You SHOULD NOT get that amount of flying vision. Boulder is a unit with 75/75 flying.