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Netherward and Blademail causes Duel with no target

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  • Netherward and Blademail causes Duel with no target

    If Legion Commander has blademail activated, uses Duel on Pugna, and Pugna gets killed by the Blademail damage from Netherward triggering off Duel, the Duel still gets casted but Pugna is already dead. Legion Commander remains disabled for the whole Duel duration, and doesn't even win the Duel.

    Repro Steps:
    1. Pick LC, build blademail, learn duel.
    2. Create enemy Pugna, create Netherward level 4 and lower his hp (around 75)
    3. Cast Blademail and cast Duel on Pugna

    Pugna dies from Blademail just before the Duel gets cast, LC gets stuck in duel for full duration without attacking anything and doesn't even receive the damage.

    Expected Result:
    Either Duel should not get casted since the target died or LC should win the duel.
    Personally, I think Duel should not get cast since the target died before it. This is what happens anyway if the hero casting a spell is killed by a Netherward and Blademail damage is even before the actual damage which triggered it.
    Last edited by crinckle; 12-17-2013, 04:48 AM.

  • #2
    Sounds more like an issue regarding targeting spells at large, not just Duel.
    I'd say it works as intended.

    If the original spell didn't go off, there would be no ensuing damage from Nether Ward/Blade Mail (or preceding, depending on the way you look at it).
    On the other hand, considering the damage reflected to Pugna is effectively dealt before the spell connects, there is no reason for it to have any of its intended effects.
    What happens with Axe's Culling Blade for example ? I'll wager it goes on cd if Pugna dies from the Blade Mail return damage. There's no way around it, that's how Blade Mail works.


    • #3
      But then consider what happens when a hero tries to cast a spell at low hp near a nether ward. He dies and the spell does not get cast. So, by applying same logic, if the spell didn't go off, there should have been no damage from Netherward. But that is not what happens. So, I thought the spell should be cancelled similar to what happens when target dies before cast point.
      Or at least, if the spell goes off, change duel to first check if target is already dead and then end the duel instantly, granting damage to LC.
      Last edited by crinckle; 12-17-2013, 09:39 PM.


      • #4
        it should be tested in dota1 to know the expected result. ur expectation doesnt count...
        according to test map, duel isnt cast and LC gains the damage.
        Last edited by Eric37073; 12-18-2013, 08:05 AM.


        • #5
          Same could happen if you cast silencer's 3rd ability on Legion with blademail


          • #6
            I think the interaction of wards and return damage just need to be looked at.

            Right now Blademail, vipers skin, centaurs damage return, and nyx's spikes will return damage (and stun for nyx) for all wards to the caster (veno, rhasta, pugna). I believe it is intended, but not sure if I agree with that interaction

            If you look at the interaction of these abilities vs summoned units or converted units, such as invokers spirts, visage birds, Ld's bear, HoD units, NP trents, Chen and Chants neutrals, etc they all recieve the effect of the above return damage abilities and not the hero who casted the ability.

            It's just one of those things that just feels odd

            With pugna ward up if nyx casts his spikes pugna gets stunned what is even odder about this one is that ward instance of damage should be returned before the spell is active. Pugna's ward damage is always calculated first, but the spikes always stun and return damage to pugna, however if the casting of spikes returns enough damage to kill nyx then nyx is killed and pugna is not stunned. This is the same for Daz grave if ward is down and Daz graves himself and the mana cost of grave was high enough to kill Daz, he will die before grave is applied.

            Veno, it is hard to say because of the Dot that is applied if infact the damage/stun should be applied to veno or not even if the Dot was from the ward.

            Rhasta wards again it feels odd that any ward damage/stun is returned to rhasta. I am not sure if Nyx's spikes block a single instance of damage for each ward or just the first one to attack and then each one after goes through, but the stun goes to rhasta once.

            So again these just feel weird and I am not sure what or how these interaction should be.
            Last edited by itshallbedone; 12-18-2013, 12:58 PM.


            • #7
              I agree that this needs to be looked at but before you jump to conclusions, this interaction is as it should be, but LC should not get stuck and the spell might or might not go on CD. No damage should be gained.

              Netherward applies damage before a spell is cast. So if you are going to ult with lina, you will die as you try to cast and never get the spell off. Blademail also distributes damage as soon as it comes in, so the damage is distributed before Duel goes off. Therefor, after Duel is cast but before it starts, Pugna is killed.

              How this interaction is handled does not have to be directly ported from Dota 1, though it could easily be, and should bring up a point of discussion.

              Note: This is the only two hero interactions where this might get fuzzy, just because of how netherward works and the fact that you are casting duel. It is not a projectile, should it should interact the same way that blademailing netherward interacts with any other non-projectile based target spell.


              • #8
                Confirmed as a bug. In dota 1 legion commander wins Duel:
                Known Tooltips and UI information Issues List
                Unreleased heroes data:

                Hero Balance Compilation 6.48 onwards
                Items and Other Balance compilation 6.48 onwards
                Dota 1 6.81c Test Map