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[Confirmed] VS, DS or Batrider moving heroes into inescapable places

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  • Originally posted by Kaneomanie View Post
    Seeing the silly arguement in here, it's pretty obvious why this hasn't been fixed for so long, clifftrapping was a fun aspect of the game and you don't want to remove these fun yet not gamebreaking bugs until neccessary (release of Dota 2) for marketing reasons (Is it a bugged version of dota 1 or is it a bugged more fun version of dota 1 until released).
    So much facepalm.

    Fun is subjective to different opinions.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by TDA101 View Post
      So much facepalm.

      Fun is subjective to different opinions.
      I'm not going to explain why clifftrapping 5 enemys during a roshfight as dark seer is generally seen as fun and promoting to the game since understanding is subject to different opinions.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Kaneomanie View Post
        I'm not going to explain why clifftrapping 5 enemys during a roshfight as dark seer is generally seen as fun and promoting to the game since understanding is subject to different opinions.
        Promote?

        You want to promote an action with puts players in a way where they are about on level as not playing the game.

        Fun for the user, extremely not fun on the other end.

        The mechanic creates situations where players of the enemy team can control essentially with no risk at how the player interacts in the game. Enjoyable mechanics involve player-to-player interaction where both players have viable moves and counters. You put people in this area where they cannot interact with anyone other than tping, hoping that they arn't disrupted. If they are, that's like a giant 60 second disable, and from a balance perspective a 60 second disable is overpowered as fuck.
        It's removes virtually all engagements with any melee heroes on the cliff and if your a ranged hero, just move the fight away from the cliff so you get your 5vX engagements. Player is tping? disrupt him or make him waste his gold and time going back to re-engage the fight! What an enjoyable mechanic this is!

        What are the counters to cliffing?
        Carrying a tp? Better hope they don't have vision or disrupt your tp. Otherwise you'll be stuck for at least 60 seconds!.
        Don't fight near rosh/runes? But rosh/runes are vital parts of the game and saying don't go near those spots is overpowered as shit with the risk/reward on the amount of area denied to the enemy team.
        Even Merlini a competitive dota player (competitive being of the importance here as these mechanics are BALANCED around the COMPETITIVE SCENE) says this is overpowered as shit due to the risk/reward.

        One sided extreme fun mechanics are ok?

        Fountain camping's fun as shit! Better promote that!, how about that thread where people want the fountain to be able to be killed? That shit's fun as hell!.

        In no way can you argue promote this mechanic as
        1. Adding value to the game
        2. Is balanced as a mechanic also considering competitive consequences.
        3. Adds a positive change from DotA 1 (WHERE ICEFROG HIMSELF CODED THESE CLIFFS TO NOT ALLOW BEING STUCK ON)
        But that's ok since you see cliffing 5 people as only fun to you, where I understand that being stuck is extremely unfun for the enemy team as well as being bad design and overpowered as shit as a balance mechanic


        You won't be the last person who argues that this is a "fun" mechanic and therefore should stay around whilst ignoring the facts of balance, bug fixing and replicating dota 1..

        Comment


        • Originally posted by TDA101 View Post
          You want toh promote an action with puts players in a way where they are about on level as not playing the game?
          I want ...? Are you high or something? I never wrote that I want to do anything, please don't put words in my mouth.
          Originally posted by TDA101 View Post
          In no way can you argue promote this mechanic as
          1. Adding value to the game
          2. Is balanced as a mechanic also considering competitive consequences.
          3. Adds a positive change from DotA 1 (WHERE ICEFROG HIMSELF CODED THESE CLIFFS TO NOT ALLOW BEING STUCK ON)
          But that's ok since you see cliffing 5 people as only fun to you, where I understand that being stuck is extremely unfun for the enemy team as well as being bad design and overpowered as shit as a balance mechanic
          1. It adds a good laugh in a while to the game
          2. There are several bugs, I'm not sure that this bug is any more imbalanced then any other bug that it deserves fixing first in BETA stage. (Most bugs were not coded in Dota 1 on purpose, BY ICEFROG HIMSELF, OH GOD THE CAPS, NEVER FORGET THE CAPS)
          3. You have no humour, spare me, I just said what most likly is the reason it took so long, I'm not a dev, I didn't wait 2 years to fix it, so whine at the devs not me.
          Last edited by Kaneomanie; 04-01-2013, 12:57 PM.

          Comment


          • You are going to insult my humor to rationalize and validate your opinion now?

            Chen dominating roshan was funny, maybe that should have stayed? There were probably thousands of people who found it humorous too, should have kept it in!

            I find it funny when my opponents crash and I win games due to those bugs, those are totally funny too! I find those funny, so we should keep those in just because they are only "bugs!"

            Comment


            • Being able to dominate roshan was a severe bug which was gamebreaking from minute 1, however if there was a dark seer or rubick in the enemy team you always knew to take care around cliffs, and could even bait them out to try to put you on a cliff.

              It was just a rational explanation why it could have taken so long to fix it, not my opinion, i prefere a bug free dota.

              Comment


              • +1 To Kaneomanie's opinion.

                The only fact that it was counterable rendered the whole thing qualifiable as not being a bug.

                People should be frighten to see a DS or a Rubick near a cliff, it has always been like that and it should still keep this behaviour, according to the Dota1 working mechanisms and my personal opinion on top of many others one (which has no point of course, don't debate on this)

                I invite you to read this thread I've made a month ago:
                http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=75007

                Concerning the quotation of the Roshan-Chen bug, it was a bug indeed. It wasn't a question about 'was it a good behaviour or not', here it was an obvious bug, and for me, not being able to set people on some cliffs (the ones who were there in Dota1, not the corrected ones) is some misconception who removed a lot of fun, because it does is not a bug.

                The question is not the 'fun', nor it is the question 'is it fair?', 'should it be a part of this game?', because i'm talking about the right behaviour that should exist. If you want I can still answer to you these questions, to no avail unfortunately:
                1- Yes it is fun
                2 - Yes it is fair, if you got stuck for one minute or so, it's your fault, it's that you don't know how to play, you didn't carry a tp or you can't blink or get hooked by an ally; there's plenty of way to come back.
                3 - The whole mechanism wouldn't be that affected, as you can see, more than one year has already passed with some cliffs being 'stuckable' before the last patch who fixed that one month ago (if you permit this term), with no big claiming, excepted by some haters who are hating.

                Still unfortunately, a lot of cliffs are still 'unstuckable', but which are stuckable in dota1... I used to make 2x telekinezis to foes hero thanks to refresher to set them in these sneaky points of the map to either run away or to earn some time. It was'nt something completely unbalanced.

                I think this feature has to remain, and it should be less powerful to prevent rubick stucking at lvl 1 for instance, which is harsh I concede.

                But please, if it becomes less powerful, and more hard to employ, let it remains a feature.

                Did you know, that -unstuck was something who existed in Dota1 and this whole mechanism was therefore understood and was completely a part of this game??


                TDA101 -> I know that you know that already I know your opinion and you know mine, the only thing that I would like to hear from you is that you would come to accept this mechanism if it actually becomes more balanced. And that is what I'm asking for... Preventing stucking destroy the whole thing instead of adapting what you are finally seeing as a bug.
                Last edited by shideneyu; 04-02-2013, 08:22 AM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by shideneyu View Post
                  +1 To Kaneomanie's opinion.
                  All I ever said was that it most likly was kept in as it was considered fun by many ppl and thus other bug prioritised first, I did not prevent anyone from fixing it, nor would I if I had the chance. It's a bug and it got fixed, other bugs got fixed first as they were not as fun or more severe. I sense a major lack of attention span in here.

                  Comment


                  • shideneyu, you are wrong. It was intentionally disabled in Dota 1. Just because a spot was maybe forgotton, it does NOT mean that it is intended. It was fun, but clearly a bug.
                    If you think I've closed or deleted a post unjustified, feel free to PM me and I'll explain it to you/discuss it with you further.

                    Comment


                    • What a pointless discussion is going on in here...

                      Take this shit to playdota please

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ThoAppelsin View Post
                        What a pointless discussion is going on in here...

                        Take this shit to playdota please
                        I was under the impression that this is a change specifically in Dota 2?
                        Please help keep the forums clean by reporting rude or abusive posts!
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                        • It is near to fixed now, to fit Dota 1. People are arguing if it should stay or not - the fix shows that Dota 2 will mirror the Dota 1 state. The issue - should it be there or not - is therefore no longer a Dota 2 discussion but a playdota.com related balance discussion.
                          If you think I've closed or deleted a post unjustified, feel free to PM me and I'll explain it to you/discuss it with you further.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by DarkLite View Post
                            I was under the impression that this is a change specifically in Dota 2?
                            What do you mean?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ThoAppelsin View Post
                              What do you mean?
                              I thought the thing people are discussing is that cliff trapping works in Dota 2 but not Dota 1? Which would mean that it should be discussed here and not playdota?

                              (not 100% sure on this though?)
                              Please help keep the forums clean by reporting rude or abusive posts!
                              Got a problem? PM me or another moderator!
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                              • Pointless thing is that some people are discussing whether it shall be possible for some spells to be able to move enemies into terrain blocked places on the map or not.
                                It is pointless to consider this as anything else than a bug, a forgotten feature, something to-be-done.

                                Now that my computer is back alive, I can even lay down a list of functions that check for those restricted areas in the DotA map

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