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DotA1 imparities

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  • There are only 2 acceptable methods of checking if a damage source is a cast or a physical attack. This "buff" method is heavily inaccurate. I can easily attack and cause dagon to hit the unit in the same 0.1 second timeslot.

    One needs you to rescript all hardcoded spells, the other one needs you to rescript all orb effects. Ice was simply to lazy and the spill IS an intended fix.
    If you think I've closed or deleted a post unjustified, feel free to PM me and I'll explain it to you/discuss it with you further.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Eric37073 View Post
      ^? according playdota: Only Feedback will work if the target unit can be affected by Feedback (Maximum Mana > 0 and not magic immune), else the other ability works normally.
      Yeah nvm, I was wrong. For some reason, I remember Feedback stacking with Skadi but actually it had a weird result and never did stack in WC3 Dota.

      Originally posted by Kryil- View Post
      There are only 2 acceptable methods of checking if a damage source is a cast or a physical attack. This "buff" method is heavily inaccurate. I can easily attack and cause dagon to hit the unit in the same 0.1 second timeslot.

      One needs you to rescript all hardcoded spells, the other one needs you to rescript all orb effects. Ice was simply to lazy and the spill IS an intended fix.
      Actually the buff example, to clarify, the buff will placed that prevents the "spill trigger" from activating for 0.1 seconds (the 0.1 seconds is just a random example, it should be enough time for the spell to cast then take effect, then go away - alternatively you could remove the buff manually after you know the spell is cast).

      So in your example (combined with my example), if you attack (in case of TA, it's a projectile attack), then you use dagon, and after you use dagon a buff is placed that lasts for as long as it's needed (it ends as soon as dagon hits, which is instant in WC3 I think; if it's not instant, you want to use a slightly higher duration than 0.1 seconds).

      As soon as dagon is cast, the effect won't activate for not only dagon (because the buff on the target prevents the spill from activating) but potentially your attack (and all future damaging effects) too (for the duration of the buff).

      So, lets say I have a custom buff (or marker, it doesn't have to a buff). And it's buff name is "PsiBladeIgnore" for example (as an example). And the "Spill trigger" will activate if "unit takes damage" (for example). What I do is simply add a condition to the "spill damage trigger", and cause it "condition - damaged unit does 'not' have "PsiBladeIgnore".

      Then in this case, when I use dagon (I make a trigger with event that unit units dagon on target for example) "with" (after "actions") an "if then else" with the condition "casting unit ability level psi blade is greater than or equal to 1" (so it knows the unit has psi blade), then add "PsiBladeIgnore" to target.

      (The above is just simplified examples, and also using the GUI names too. Again just for example to make it easier to understand.)

      Now that PsiBladeIgnore is on the target, the "spill damage" won't activate on that target (for however long the buff lasts).

      To go further into this, when dagon is cast two possible ways to do this:

      1. I'm not sure exactly when spell casting events trigger (does it trigger a little before the spell casts or not). In this window of time, the buff that has 0.1 second will be placed (just before dagon, an instant effect in WC3 I think since all chain lightnings in WC3 are instant(?), hits).

      2. If number #1 doesn't work (I forgot, I haven't done a lot of WC3 mapping). The item "dagon" effect could be turned into a dummy effect. When dagon is cast, then it actually spawns a dummy unit (on the same location as the caster), that casts the actual dagon effect. "But" before that though (before it spawns a dummy unit to cast), it places a buff (again, a custom aura buff can be used since they can stack without taking up a "buff slot" - take note for aura buffs, you have to remove it manually yourself after 0.1 second, maybe using a timer, since aura buffs seem to last at least 2 seconds or more) or you can simply mark a unit another way (an aura is just one example).

      When damage is taken, spill (for example) checks if there is any buffs the target shouldn't have (in this case, the aura buff we added for example), then instead of spilling, nothing happens. And as long as the buff is present, no spill will happen.

      Anyway, this will work (especially example #2 where you use a dummy unit to cast, so there is a window of time for the buff to be placed before dagon is actually cast) "but" there will be an issue where if you use dagon and attack at the same time, your regular attack (for the short duration, probably just 1 attack) won't spill.

      So I do understand it's not a great way to do this (since it isn't error proof) but there isn't any big negative impacts besides "sometimes" the psi spill doesn't work if you attack and cast at the same time, but it's not a big deal.

      With the above example, spells (that are instant and targetable) won't activate spill damage (as long as you do the above example for every target spell and/or item).

      ______________________
      The above example was some of my some experiences with damage detecting in my custom maps.

      I used to have a custom map and I used someone's damage detection system (Rising_Dusk from wc3 campaigns). I was too lazy to redo all spells, so I had a situation where most of the spells in my custom map were just the WC3 ones (including ones from dummy units) while only a few were ones that actually used RD's damage detection system.

      One my heroes had an ultimate that was a "triggered feedback" (using RD's damage detection system) that occurred on every damage instance (and it *stacked with everything, including WC3 spells, including DoTs from immolation for example), etc "except" I didn't want it to work on that hero's spells (which did a ton damage spread across multiple periods - based on WC3 damage and not RD's damage detection system).

      *The reason why it stacked with everything is because (like you said) you need to recode every single spell to work with the damage detection system and that is a lot of work. You can only detect all damage types if you use a system and if you recode all spells to use the system too.

      Anyway, the dagon example regarding placing a buff on a unit, then making damage script (in this case the custom triggered feedback) ignore it if it had the marker buff was one of the ways I prevented the custom feedback ability I had from activating on spells I had.

      Of course, the above example only really works if the spell is instant (you cast it and it happens) or if the spell is channeling (where the hero isn't able to do anything else, so you can take advantage of just turning off the triggering effect until the hero is done channeling the spell). If both dagon's nuke and diffusal blade's purge are instant, as soon as the hero finishes the casting animation, the effect happens, you can sort of take advantage of it.

      Err anyway, yeah I agree, the spill damage effect was probably not intended at all in WC3 build (especially with Purging a summon unit, which causes a ton of damage) - it's just my reply was mostly regarding the WC3 engine (the person made it sound like there really was no way to detect whether damage came from a spell or an attack, and I was just itching to reply and clarify that >.>).

      Anyway, I agree with the change but just wanted to clarify that (which is kind of moot considering that topic and that post was from over a year ago) >.>.
      Last edited by Goldfish2; 04-04-2013, 12:09 AM.

      Comment


      • A couple of the items on the list really should be up for discussion. Yes, some are more common sense mechanical fixes, like frostbite on batrider, or fixing luna's glaives, but some aren't.

        Linken's blocking Zeus ulti makes a lot more sense than Linken's blocking impale (AoE ground target-able) or Wrath of Nature (essentially global chain lightning). True sight countering leap is a bit strange, but mechanically makes perfect sense and could have easily been coded as a blink in wc3 if the current effect in dota2 was intended all along. Midas not having a projectile is minor to be sure, but still, no reason for it to be changed.
        ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Give TECHIES

        Comment


        • Originally posted by LxRogue View Post
          A couple of the items on the list really should be up for discussion. Yes, some are more common sense mechanical fixes, like frostbite on batrider, or fixing luna's glaives, but some aren't.

          Linken's blocking Zeus ulti makes a lot more sense than Linken's blocking impale (AoE ground target-able) or Wrath of Nature (essentially global chain lightning). True sight countering leap is a bit strange, but mechanically makes perfect sense and could have easily been coded as a blink in wc3 if the current effect in dota2 was intended all along. Midas not having a projectile is minor to be sure, but still, no reason for it to be changed.
          Don't get me started about the linkens & zeus ulti one... I have argued that heavily in the past.
          Comprehensive Damage Reduction & Amplifications Dota 2 Guide

          Comment


          • Originally posted by LxRogue View Post
            A couple of the items on the list really should be up for discussion. Yes, some are more common sense mechanical fixes, like frostbite on batrider, or fixing luna's glaives, but some aren't.

            Linken's blocking Zeus ulti makes a lot more sense than Linken's blocking impale (AoE ground target-able) or Wrath of Nature (essentially global chain lightning). True sight countering leap is a bit strange, but mechanically makes perfect sense and could have easily been coded as a blink in wc3 if the current effect in dota2 was intended all along. Midas not having a projectile is minor to be sure, but still, no reason for it to be changed.
            FYI, the policy we have now is that they are all up for discussion. Either bump the thread linked for the issue in question and ask to have it moved to Brainstorming (if not already located there), or make a new thread if the linked thread is closed, also in Brainstorming. Whether these are changed is still up to the Valvefrog though, no guarantees are given.
            Always read and follow the forum rules. If you need help from a moderator, use the report button ()
            Before posting new bugs:
            -Check the Known Bugs List and search the forum for an existing report.
            -Make sure its a bug (test in WC3 Dota, visit playdota guides and adv. mech, etc). If you're still not sure, post in Mechanics and Gameplay Bug Brainstorming instead.
            -Read the Bug Posting Guidelines on how to report a bug properly.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DLRevan View Post
              or make a new thread if the linked thread is closed, also in Brainstorming.
              also add a small note that the original thread is closed to prevent confusion by sloppy mods (read: me).
              Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

              Contributions i'd like to highlight:
              My Suggestion: Coaching System
              My Sticky: Intended Changes List
              My Challenge: Completely Fixed Hero Challenge: Skywrath Mage

              Comment


              • How about adding the Armlet/Spirit Bear interaction?
                Originally posted by fletcher
                Just to clarify, there was never any "win rate" calculation. Ever. It is true that a goal of matchmaking is to make even teams. The matchmaker also will raise your Elo and try to put you in players of equivalent skill, which indirectly tries to get the win rate to 50%. However, it has never looked at your historical win rate and put you in a game where it knew that you were expected to lose.
                Is every post on this forum about the Dunning-Kruger effect?

                Comment


                • i have been posting in old threads, sorry, but here is a compiled list of 'need confirmation list' that should have been moved to intended changes list:

                  AM/QoP blinking the full distance when trying to blink out of range (discussion)
                  Juxtapose only spawns illusions when a hit connects (discussion) added 07.05.2012
                  Barathrum's Greater Bash no longer being applied before the actual hit (thus overriding evasion) (discussion) added 15.05.2012
                  Rot damaging while the caster is being paused (discussion)
                  Huskar's Life Break can be canceled completly by Tossing him while he is charging (discussion) added 17.07.2012

                  the list is so long....

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by chunkyboy View Post
                    i have been posting in old threads, sorry, but here is a compiled list of 'need confirmation list' that should have been moved to intended changes list:

                    AM/QoP blinking the full distance when trying to blink out of range (discussion)
                    Juxtapose only spawns illusions when a hit connects (discussion) added 07.05.2012
                    Barathrum's Greater Bash no longer being applied before the actual hit (thus overriding evasion) (discussion) added 15.05.2012
                    Rot damaging while the caster is being paused (discussion)
                    Huskar's Life Break can be canceled completly by Tossing him while he is charging (discussion) added 17.07.2012

                    the list is so long....
                    since i am moderator myself i am not using the "moderator confirmation" anymore.
                    otherwise i'd just confirm all the changes on my own and we all know whom i'd piss off with that kind of thing.
                    Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

                    Contributions i'd like to highlight:
                    My Suggestion: Coaching System
                    My Sticky: Intended Changes List
                    My Challenge: Completely Fixed Hero Challenge: Skywrath Mage

                    Comment


                    • Lazy devs are lazy.

                      Ancient backdoor protection was a bug in Dota 1 now.

                      Isn't it great they fixed it?

                      Wonder what other major features about dota they'll change just because it's more convenient for them.
                      Over 300 major bugs. The Ancient BD 'feature.' Mute System: win rate directly correlated to amount of muted players on each team.
                      Developers have no backbone or heart, consistently browse threads about controversial topics awaiting a developer reply, never answer.
                      It couldn't get any worse. Valve should be given the benefit of a doubt?
                      I was wrong. Quickcast.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by daed View Post
                        Lazy devs are lazy.

                        Ancient backdoor protection was a bug in Dota 1 now.

                        Isn't it great they fixed it?

                        Wonder what other major features about dota they'll change just because it's more convenient for them.
                        first of all, you are almost over a week too late to bring any news.

                        and more importantly: is it really that hard to understand that changing the backdoor protection was a balance change?
                        do we need to post those useless and irritating whines?
                        backdoor protection was changed in wc3 dota? fine! life goes on!
                        if you dont like it post on playdota.com because that is a balance discussion.
                        Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

                        Contributions i'd like to highlight:
                        My Suggestion: Coaching System
                        My Sticky: Intended Changes List
                        My Challenge: Completely Fixed Hero Challenge: Skywrath Mage

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by blash365 View Post
                          first of all, you are almost over a week too late to bring any news.

                          and more importantly: is it really that hard to understand that changing the backdoor protection was a balance change?
                          do we need to post those useless and irritating whines?
                          backdoor protection was changed in wc3 dota? fine! life goes on!
                          if you dont like it post on playdota.com because that is a balance discussion.
                          Doesn't really affect balance at all though since you can disable by taking over an Enemy Minion(creep) using helm then Tp onto it at their base and proceed to BD unopposed.

                          I would have to agree it is just Dev laziness/ Personal bias by some devs.

                          A lot of these non confirmed "intended changes" seem just like bugs where there is a discussion due to personal bias.

                          Nice list though ^^ Lots of heated debates.
                          Last edited by Crowfeather; 07-09-2013, 04:05 PM.
                          Originally posted by Typhox
                          Nope. Windows Explorer is not a database
                          Take a look into the mirror! You think you are completely unfailable. With your limited knowledge, you think that you know more than someone who is very deep in the matter/an expert.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Crowfeather View Post
                            Doesn't really affect balance at all though since you can disable by taking over an Enemy Minion(creep) using helm then Tp onto it at their base and proceed to BD unopposed.
                            i think, he was talking about glyph. glyph doesnt get affected by creeps.
                            Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

                            Contributions i'd like to highlight:
                            My Suggestion: Coaching System
                            My Sticky: Intended Changes List
                            My Challenge: Completely Fixed Hero Challenge: Skywrath Mage

                            Comment


                            • Faceless Void's Time Walk

                              When Void is trying to escape from Tower's shot by Time Walk:
                              DotA: Void evades it
                              DotA 2: It hit Void

                              Comment


                              • 1) wrong place, make a thread for bug reports
                                2) don't make a thread as this is false
                                3) time walk does not disjoin projectiles in either dota 1 or dota 2. however he is invulnerable during time walking both games, so the projectile will deal no damage if it hits during timewalk

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