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[Confirmed] gyro's flak (mb intented)

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  • [Confirmed] gyro's flak (mb intented)

    Gyrocopter's flak canon can miss attack

    in dota, flak canon couldn't miss (I mean the split shot part couldn't miss, the regular attack could miss)

    In bulk to reproduce it, you need an opponent with butter (or mortred or panda ^^) activate flak canon and then, hit an unit while being at less than 800 range from the hero with butter, sometimes the split shot will miss the hero.

    Dunno if it's intended it makes sense at least -even if it was the streng of split shot in dota 1-, (and now that mkb do not interact badly with splitshot, we may consider it instead of a 2nd butter) cause with a mkb the split shot do not miss
    Last edited by miambox; 06-15-2012, 11:51 AM.

  • #2
    Actually the attacks can't miss. And if you miss on the main target the counter shouldn't change. (e.g if you missed 3 attacks, the attack counter will not change, but all other units will be hit normally. Can anyone approve that secondary rockets miss, and that the counter changes or not ?
    Before posting a bug read the Bug posting guidelines first and check the Known Bugs list For existing bugs.


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    • #3
      Well, I mb not explain myself clearly, I'll try again.
      If a hero with butter is in the aoe of flak canon, [the hero isn't the main target ofc]
      they can avoid (with some luck of course) some hit(s) from the flak canon (i guess it's what you call "secondary rockets"). And in dota (1) the "secondary rockets" couldn't miss.
      I also mention that If you have mkb in your inventory, then the "secondary rockets" will not miss.

      I tested it myself with the commande to spawn enemy bots and give item bots. I'll try to search the id and time of my game where i first saw it.

      Edit: Dunno if you can enter this one ID: 20755534. that is my test to highlight my suspicion.

      the first time I saw it : 20709369
      42min 30 sec in the clock or 46 min in the panel to speed up the replay
      look at the 2 illusions shadow demon did, both are in range, but most of time only one get dammaged by the flak canon (those are illusion wearing butterfly)
      Last edited by miambox; 06-15-2012, 03:26 PM.

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      • #4
        I totally understand you. That should not happen. the "secondary rockets" should not miss. I was just asking another question. Because in dota1, if you miss on the Main target, the count for hits will not reduce.

        I'll try to explain in an example.
        You have 6hits
        1 hits (other units in area get hit) - 5hits remaining
        2 hits (other units in area get hit) - 4hits remaining
        3 misses (other units in area get hit) - Still 4 hits are remaining.

        All i'm trying to ask is: if you miss on the first target will the counter reduce or not.

        Anyways i'm adding this to the sticky.
        Before posting a bug read the Bug posting guidelines first and check the Known Bugs list For existing bugs.


        Use the report () button when you need help from a Moderator.




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        • #5
          I can confirm that Flak Canon's extra hits can miss, easiest reproduction would be shooting creeps from downhill.
          I noticed it many times during my ~3 games with gyro.

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          • #6
            trena99, i just tested in war3, and i didn't notice what you wrote, i send you the rep: (I took flak canon only level 1 so 3 split shot) you may notice I missed the first hit, and the 4th hadn't split shot)
            https://rapidshare.com/files/1570863847/LastReplay.w3g
            and it works exactly same in dota2

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            • #7
              I don't know, i might be wrong. But i also tested it also in dota1 before saying that. and in lvl4 (6 hits) I used Brewmaster to ensure big miss chance, and gyrocopter hit around 8-9 with split shot.

              Maybe i am wrong, i will test it again later perhaps.
              Before posting a bug read the Bug posting guidelines first and check the Known Bugs list For existing bugs.


              Use the report () button when you need help from a Moderator.




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              • #8
                okey, i will try again using brewmaster, cause in war3 engine, miss and avoid isn't same, and mb with the miss from drunken haze it cause the extra split shot, gonna test it now.

                Edit: Yes, if you miss cause of drunken haze it gives some extra split shot, now I'm going to test on dota2

                Edit2: In dota2, if you miss cause of drunken haze it doesn't give some extra split shot (contrary to dota) but even though I think it should be discus further to know if it has to be fixed or if that unintended change is finally intended. (I'm like 100% sure that they didn't change this thing in knowing it ^^). Indeed, missing 5 or 6 time in a row (cause of drunken haze -not butter/or passiv such as mortred's-) could be (actually IS) really broken, since you'll get such an amazing aoe damage bonus ^^

                So in short for those who didn't follow since the begining.

                If you miss cause of drunken haze ---> you'll get some extra split shot in dota and you don't in dota 2
                If you miss cause of butterfly/mortred's passiv/brewmaster passiv/halberd etc... ----> you won't get extra split shot in dota and you also won't get extra split shot in dota 2
                Last edited by miambox; 06-17-2012, 05:08 PM.

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                • #9
                  I don't know why you guys aren't using Windrunner ability when it comes to testing with misses.
                  Trena was right. On W3 DotA, missed attacks does not cause a countdown on the Flak Cannon counter, although Gyrocopter still releases secondary missles that deals actual damages to the secondary targets.

                  But, all in all, Dota 2 version is indisputably more logical than the W3 version. So I have no doubt that this will be eventually acknowledged as an [Intended Change].

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ThoAppelsin View Post
                    Trena was right. On W3 DotA, missed attacks does not cause a countdown on the Flak Cannon counter
                    The fact that on missed (and not on avoided, that not the same thing !) attack, we don't get extra flak canon hit seems intended (or mb not even intended, but just that we don't have the limitation of war3 engine which was causing that bug)

                    But the fact that flak canon can miss, is first a huge nerf to gyrocopter especially in mid lane (remember how ta got nerfed after an intended change on meld cause she became to strong ?) -anyway it's not here that we should talk about balancing-
                    And second (actually first ^^), if split shot attack can miss secondary target in dota2, there's no reason for boucing attack (luna) to not to miss on secondary target.

                    btw, is there two different word when you miss the target in english version of war3 ? cause in french there's only one, and if i missunderstood last post, it might comes from that
                    Last edited by miambox; 11-20-2012, 04:41 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Missed and avoided means the same thing... Doesn't it?

                      I have only suggested using Windrunner's Windrun ability to test things that requires testing with "misses" (or "avoided/dodged attacks"), which is a 100% miss; instead of using other types of misses like Drunken Brawler or Blur, which are non-100%, percentage based evasions.
                      Other than that, I haven't made any balance discussion. I have confirmed the difference that Trena has pointed out, and right after that I have put down a comment about my expectation for the future of this bug report. I mean, Flak Cannon is just a split shot. It is not the same with the Moon Glaive. It is more like the Split Shot of the Medusa.
                      Still, it is a [Bug] until it is acknowledged as an [Intended Fix].

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