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[Confirmed] HP Removal doesn't affect invulnerable Units

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  • [Confirmed] HP Removal doesn't affect invulnerable Units

    Summary: In DotA 1 HP Removal doesn't care for invulnerability and is able to damage invulnerable units (though not able to kill due to magical/physical killingblows). In DotA 2 invulnerable units are immune to HP Removal.

    Repro:
    1. Get and level a Naga Siren, a Venge and any enemy hero
    2. Use Song of the Siren
    3. Use Wave of Terror on enemy

    Result:
    Enemy doesn't take damage

    Expected:
    Enemy is damaged

    Further investigations (all tests were made with Song of the Siren)
    Skill DotA 1 Behavior DotA 2 Behavior
    Venge - Wave of Terror Damage applied, no armor debuff No damage applied, no armor debuff
    Invoker - EMP Damage/Mana loss applied (exception: tonadoed units) No Damage/Mana loss (see also EMP is pure dmg)
    Bane - Nightmare Not castable on invul. units, gets canceled if ulti affects nightmared unit (probably due to both spells being sleep-based, other might not cancel) Not castable on unit, doesnt get dispelled (though no dmg done)
    Warlock - Fatal Bonds Not castable on invul. units, can link to invul. units, deals damage Not castable on unit, doesnt link to invul units, no damage
    Undying - Soul Rip (25hp loss) Damage applied, units count normally No damage, units are ignored for further effects
    Terror Blade - Sunder Not castable on invul. units Not castable on invul. units
    Necrolyte - Heartstopper Aura Aura is not applied, though the aura is still in effect for 2-4 seconds after ulti start and deals dmg in that time Aura is removed immediatly, no damage
    Urn of Shadows Not castable, damage applied if used beforehand Not castable, no damage applied
    Kunkka - Ghost Ship (Rum wearoff) Damage applied No damage applied
    Armlet of Mordiggian Health loss applied No health loss
    Wisp - Overcharge Health loss applied No health loss
    The only threads I found were mostly about pucks phasehift or imprisonment which isnt completly comparable. If you think this could be intended move this to Brainstorming, thx.
    Last edited by bu3ny; 08-03-2014, 03:48 AM.

  • #2
    added to sticky.
    good list.
    Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

    Contributions i'd like to highlight:
    My Suggestion: Coaching System
    My Sticky: Intended Changes List
    My Challenge: Completely Fixed Hero Challenge: Skywrath Mage

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks, i think the list is now complete. If someone finds a missing interaction, please tell me

      Comment


      • #4
        Which DotA version did you use for testing. 6.74 had this
        - EMP can no longer hit Invulnerable/Tornadoed units
        in its changelog. So EMP shouldn't damage in DotA as well.

        Comment


        • #5
          I used the 6.74 test version and after rechecking it, it definatly burns mana/damages the target. I even double checked with the normal 6.74 version, still same result. So either this is bugged in DotA 1 or that patch change was only supposed to be an exception for Tornado and was badly worded.

          In any case the behavior mentioned in the table above is definatly the current DotA 1 behavior as of 6.74, but feel free to test for yourself
          Last edited by Belarion; 08-03-2012, 03:40 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            This seems like an intended fix, given how consistent it is (invulnerability blocking everything in all cases).

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Belarion View Post
              I used the 6.74 test version and after rechecking it, it definatly burns mana/damages the target. I even double checked with the normal 6.74 version, still same result. So either this is bugged in DotA 1 or that patch change was only supposed to be an exception for Tornado and was badly worded.
              It is simply badly worded. In 6.74, EMP still affects invulnerable units but it checks for the target having been tornado'ed/eul'ed.

              Originally posted by SlyGoat View Post
              This seems like an intended fix, given how consistent it is (invulnerability blocking everything in all cases).
              HP removal was also consistently being considered 'damage' by relevant skills like spiked carapace and refraction before. I would rather say this is a consistent slip-up on the part of the devs :P

              We'll leave this up for now.
              Always read and follow the forum rules. If you need help from a moderator, use the report button ()
              Before posting new bugs:
              -Check the Known Bugs List and search the forum for an existing report.
              -Make sure its a bug (test in WC3 Dota, visit playdota guides and adv. mech, etc). If you're still not sure, post in Mechanics and Gameplay Bug Brainstorming instead.
              -Read the Bug Posting Guidelines on how to report a bug properly.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by DLRevan View Post
                It is simply badly worded. In 6.74, EMP still affects invulnerable units but it checks for the target having been tornado'ed/eul'ed.



                HP removal was also consistently being considered 'damage' by relevant skills like spiked carapace and refraction before. I would rather say this is a consistent slip-up on the part of the devs :P

                We'll leave this up for now.
                But things like Fatal Bonds being unable to cast on invulnerable units, considering them valid linking targets are inconsistent in DotA but consistent in Dota2.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Interesting. Never really got to these intricate mechanics in wc3 dota.

                  On a sidenote, I don't think it's a good idea for devs to make ANY intended changes until the game is completely out of beta. Many things are confusing as hell.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    good that they havent done any intended changes yet then.
                    Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

                    Contributions i'd like to highlight:
                    My Suggestion: Coaching System
                    My Sticky: Intended Changes List
                    My Challenge: Completely Fixed Hero Challenge: Skywrath Mage

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      No you are doing us a favour by making this list, but I guarantee that some of these "fixes" have weird exceptions that have not been discovered. We've just introduced more bugs to the game. After years of development, dota 1 mechanics were pretty much set, except some persistent bugs. Implementing fixes that address anything other than these bugs are only causing confusion. And most, if not all, of these fixes are taking things away instead of adding.

                      But that's totally unrelated

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SlyGoat View Post
                        But things like Fatal Bonds being unable to cast on invulnerable units, considering them valid linking targets are inconsistent in DotA but consistent in Dota2.
                        You have a point there. But given the many past issues with HP removal, alot of which have been fixed to Dota 1 parity, I'm inclined to treat it as a bug for now. Its just academic really, there is no harm with it being on the common bugs list as opposed to the intended fix list.
                        Always read and follow the forum rules. If you need help from a moderator, use the report button ()
                        Before posting new bugs:
                        -Check the Known Bugs List and search the forum for an existing report.
                        -Make sure its a bug (test in WC3 Dota, visit playdota guides and adv. mech, etc). If you're still not sure, post in Mechanics and Gameplay Bug Brainstorming instead.
                        -Read the Bug Posting Guidelines on how to report a bug properly.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Rupture not affecting invulnerable units is gamebreaking bug

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            really negates half the purpose of changing it to hp removal. I'm very surprised it hasn't gotten higher priority.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Removed Rupture from the table.
                              Please, just call me buny.

                              Comment

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