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[Confirmed] Exploitable 10-sec Resell

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  • [Confirmed] Exploitable 10-sec Resell

    Hi,

    I just found a problem in DOTA 2 that wasn't in DotA, since you couln't get a full refund right after purchasing an item. I'm not sure if it should behave like this but I'll take it shoudn't since it gives an unfair advantage in some stages of the game.

    How it works today

    You can buy any item (as long as it won't merge with another one in your inventory) and you're given 10 seconds to sell it back for the full price you paid. This is great, specially when you buy the wrong item by mistake.

    Problem

    Items like Ring of Health and Void Stone will still benefit you for the whole time they're in your inventory. Meaning: as long as you have the gold and space in your bag, you can purchase them, use for 9 seconds and then sell it, getting the full amount you paid for it and thus benefiting from it for free and for an unlimited amount of time.

    That's specially problematic with Ring of Health, since:

    a) It's sold in the side-shop;
    b) It's a fixed amount of regen, making it valuable early game when people usually have harass problems and low HP to start with;
    c) It's stackable (getting 2 will grant you an incredible +10 HP per second, giving you free almost 100 HP every 10 seconds).

    Some people could argue that getting 850 gold early to make this exploit worth it isn't easy, which isn't true. Getting first blood or picking a few heroes that have better farming capabilities/skills make this an easy task.

    Possible solutions

    One way to solve this would be studying the items that are currently sold in the side and secret shops that could be exploited like the 2 examples above and not give them the option to be sold for the full amount.

    That's a bad way to solve this IMO.

    People could still resell them for the same reason we resell the other items: bought it by mistake/changed our minds a little too late.

    The best way this should be handled is making items like Ring of Health work only after the resell time has ended, maybe even a little earlier like 8 seconds since this method isn't worth exploiting for +10 HP every 10 seconds.

    Thank you for your time.

  • #2
    Can be fixed by items not giving regen until the 10 second timeout but I like your sideshop idea better. At first I thought this wasn't an issue at all, but I just realised that the suicide lanes close to the side shop would give you enough time to exploit this.

    Bottle and consumable items automatically become half price sale after you use them.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hmm could be a problem, but I do not see an easy fix.

      Comment


      • #4
        There is a very simple fix. First time you buy an item, you have 10 sec to sell it back. If you buy that item again within say 1 or 2 minutes, you can not sell it back to the vendor in 10 seconds. Basically, put a cooldown on buying the same item consecutively, after it has been sold back once. You would never do this legitimately in a game, and those abusing it will be punished by losing gold.

        Either way, whether this is an exploit or not is debatable. It's an advantage for those who have the gold and skill to do it, and is very easily punishable by the other team.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by HMAN911 View Post
          There is a very simple fix. First time you buy an item, you have 10 sec to sell it back. If you buy that item again within say 1 or 2 minutes, you can not sell it back to the vendor in 10 seconds. Basically, put a cooldown on buying the same item consecutively, after it has been sold back once. You would never do this legitimately in a game, and those abusing it will be punished by losing gold.

          Either way, whether this is an exploit or not is debatable. It's an advantage for those who have the gold and skill to do it, and is very easily punishable by the other team.
          Don't put a cooldown on buying the same item consecutively, put a cooldown on selling the same item consecutively. If let's say I have 900 gold and I purchase boots. Suddenly I realize that I would much rather have Ring of Health to deal with harass. I would sell my boots, get RoH, and buy boots later. Your suggestion would punish me for no reason, whereas mine wouldn't

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by JX_Blue View Post
            Don't put a cooldown on buying the same item consecutively, put a cooldown on selling the same item consecutively. If let's say I have 900 gold and I purchase boots. Suddenly I realize that I would much rather have Ring of Health to deal with harass. I would sell my boots, get RoH, and buy boots later. Your suggestion would punish me for no reason, whereas mine wouldn't

            consecutively


            That means after the first buy. Buy, sell, buy, sell, buy again (this is where you get punished).

            Comment


            • #7
              Just tried this late-game as well, it's beautiful. I was going from 8 to 18 HP/sec after getting 2 Ring of Health in the Secret Shop while I was farming my Eaglesong (3300g) on Juggernaut. Another cool thing about this is that you can kill the Ancients on your side of the map in their cooldown while you safe-regen in your Secret Shop! No TP, no potions, no spending mana, no going back to fountain.

              And remember when I said some heroes will benefit more from it since they have better farm capabilities and skills?

              Imagine this: Doom Bringer in Hellbourne side, middle lane.

              He already has supperb gold income with his Devour and usually goes for Radiance. Thing is, Sacred Relic costs 3800 gold. While you farm it you will be able to buy 3 or more Rings of Health at once, wait a bit for insane regen, resell and go back to your creeps like the Honey Badger.

              You know what I even done? I got a Quelling Blade as a starting item and destroyed a few trees close to the Secret Shop before the game started, making a shortcut upwards from the middle tower so I'd still stay in middle lane while purchasing. All it took were 5 trees.

              And that was just a quick idea I had, I can even get more creative.

              I still like the after-10-sec-regen-will-start-working better than making a cooldown.

              Comment


              • #8
                I agree there should be a fix. This exploit can actually be significant in the laning phase.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Honestly I don't think this affects the game enough to warrant adding more rules / interactions. It is better left as a cool little trick for advanced players. I used to do the same thing in HoN. It's really not that strong, since it only restores health and you are stuck waiting for a minute to heal up anyway.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by teen View Post
                    Honestly I don't think this affects the game enough to warrant adding more rules / interactions. It is better left as a cool little trick for advanced players. I used to do the same thing in HoN. It's really not that strong, since it only restores health and you are stuck waiting for a minute to heal up anyway.
                    +1.

                    It's not like they can use it and you can't.
                    Everyone can use this. I vote for leaving it as is.
                    http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...l=1#post363428
                    http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...l=1#post391229
                    http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...l=1#post387107
                    http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...l=1#post387566
                    http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...l=1#post413548
                    http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...l=1#post433719

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I don't see a problem here. The "profit" doesn't worth it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'd say yes needs a fix
                        Check out my newbie workshop here:
                        http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/7...workshopfiles/ (getting better with every submission though ;O)
                        Cases solved list:
                        t=51973 Free terrain Vision; t=50357 Mirana ult + Manta; t=52974 Rhasta Serpent Wards dmg ;t=53288 Sell back possible exploits; etc...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm for the "can't sell the same item twice after buying it back"
                          If players want to still exploit it *once* for +40 hp or so, let em

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Maybe you should leave it, could be a cool feature.
                            If you are laning and you go next to a shop for a 9 second ring of health heal, the enemy will notice and will do something about it and you might end up dying and/or keeping the item.

                            If they prefer fixing it rather than leaving it then reduce it to 6 seconds.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by master2080 View Post
                              Maybe you should leave it, could be a cool feature.
                              If you are laning and you go next to a shop for a 9 second ring of health heal, the enemy will notice and will do something about it and you might end up dying and/or keeping the item.

                              If they prefer fixing it rather than leaving it then reduce it to 6 seconds.
                              ^ this, buying a tango will most likely be far less risky than just hanging around side shop, and moreover possibly not gaining xp...

                              Comment

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