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[Confirmed] Hero-only abilities & Resistant Skin

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  • [Confirmed] Hero-only abilities & Resistant Skin

    Summary:

    Brewmaster's primal split summons are hit by ice blast, while they are completely unaffected in WC3 Dota

    Repro steps:

    1) Pick AA and -createhero brewmaster enemy
    2) level both to atleast 6
    3) Use primal split
    4) Use ice blast on the primal split summons

    Result:

    Only earth is unaffected by ice blast. The debuff is also applied, and can shatter the fire and storm spirits. This can be seen in dota2://matchid=35756834&matchtime=2433 if you can't be bothered reproing.

    Expected result:

    Brewlings are unaffected by ice blast (from testing in DotA 1) - maybe because they are ancients?

    EDIT:

    Some hero-only skills and AOE abilities are targetting units with resistant skin (or "creep heroes" as they are now called)

    List of abilities (that I have found) that work on resistant skin units that shouldn't:

    Ancient Apparition's Ice Blast DoT
    Dazzle's Shallow Grave
    Dazzle's Weave (both allied and enemy)
    Doom's LVL Death? ( http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=69527 )
    **Huskar's Inner Vitality** See Misc.
    Kunkka's X-Marks the spot ( http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=73372 )
    Magnus' Skewer
    Puck's Dream Coil
    Razor's Static Link
    **Rubick's Spell Steal - "Cannot steal this spell" always displays but they are targettable**
    Silencer's Last Word ( http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=73381 )
    Spectre's Desolate ( http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=73388 )
    Witch Doctor's Maledict ( http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=90516 )

    **Vengeful Spirit's Nether Swap - On Spirit Bear only** WITHOUT SCEPTRE ("Cannot target creeps" on familiars and brewlings)**


    Abilities that differ correctly between the two:

    Alchemist's Unstable Concoction
    Ancient Apparition's Chilling Touch
    Bounty Hunter's Track
    Chen's Hand of God
    Dark Seer's Wall of Replica
    Disruptor's Glimpse

    Mirana's Moonlight Shadow
    Morphling's Replicate
    Outworld Destroyer's Astral Imprisonment
    Outworld Destroyer's Sanity's Eclipse
    Shadow Demon's Disruption
    Silencer's Curse of the Silent
    Spectre's Haunt
    **Spectre's Spectral Dagger** (They seem targettable, but do not leave their own trails and the dagger does not "chase" them)

    Fixed by valve since start of this thread:

    Drow Ranger's Precision Aura (when toggled to hero only - ofc should work when activated to all allies) [skill changed, no longer relevant]
    Luna's Lunar Blessing
    Troll Warlord's Ultimate
    Witch Doctor's Death Ward **WITH AGHANIM'S** - http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=68030


    Misc:

    Huskar's Inner Vitality can't target creeps (can in WC3 DotA)



    BASICALLY if a skill can target BOTH CREEPS and HEROES it can be targetted, else it cannot. End of story. Now all things that CAN hit both should use the HERO interaction, with a possible exception of some triggered skills. But for this purpose some parts of skills, such as AA's Ultimate should be considered seperately (the initial nuke can hit creeps, while the DoT cannot, and should therefore not be felt by creeps).

    From the Kunkka X-Marks thread.
    Last edited by Wyn-Ryder; 06-02-2013, 06:16 PM.
    Comprehensive Damage Reduction & Amplifications Dota 2 Guide

  • #2
    Needs some more research. It could be an intentional change.

    Comment


    • #3
      Bump - it also affects spirit bear and warlock's ultimate and visage's familiars - anything with "resistant skin" in warcraft 3 (i.e. is treated as a hero for the purpose of paralysing cask etc.)
      Last edited by Wyn-Ryder; 09-19-2012, 02:44 AM.
      Comprehensive Damage Reduction & Amplifications Dota 2 Guide

      Comment


      • #4
        Alright. This actually seems to be: Hero-only skills affect units with resistant skin. Ice blast and Static Link are a couple of the examples I can think of - so maybe a more general title to the thread "Resistant skin treats the unit as a hero for all skill-related purposes" or something like that.
        Comprehensive Damage Reduction & Amplifications Dota 2 Guide

        Comment


        • #5
          i can confirm that any spell resistant hero will still be affected by the Spirit Bear's entangling claws.
          i remember several times where an enemy uses bkb and i still caught him with entangling claws, i don't know if entangling claws damages skin resistant heroes but it sure did entangle that bkb user.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by aeon44 View Post
            i can confirm that any spell resistant hero will still be affected by the Spirit Bear's entangling claws.
            i remember several times where an enemy uses bkb and i still caught him with entangling claws, i don't know if entangling claws damages skin resistant heroes but it sure did entangle that bkb user.
            Intended and not what I am discussing. I am discussing units with "resistant skin" - which CANNOT be heroes, but are treated like heroes for all abilities where they should only be treated like heroes for skills that can also target non-hero units.
            Comprehensive Damage Reduction & Amplifications Dota 2 Guide

            Comment


            • #7
              added to sticky.
              Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

              Contributions i'd like to highlight:
              My Suggestion: Coaching System
              My Sticky: Intended Changes List
              My Challenge: Completely Fixed Hero Challenge: Skywrath Mage

              Comment


              • #8
                I'd like to add that Nature's Prophet ultimate shouldn't hit Spirit Bear but it does. In DoTA1 in fact there's a bug with it that if Wrath of Nature hits Spirit Bear first then the whole spell will not activate because Spirit Bear is immune which means it cannot bounce to anything else as the initial target takes no damage.

                Unless this was fixed in the last few patches this should still be bugged.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Nice find, but probably deserves it's own thread, I think it's due to it being an ancient, not it having resistant skin.

                  I can also confirm that it is affecting the spirit bear while it shouldn't, being both targettable and a valid target to bounce to are bugs.

                  The spell cannot be cast on spirit bear at all in dota 1 (Cannot target ancients)
                  Comprehensive Damage Reduction & Amplifications Dota 2 Guide

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Lol...
                    I just wasted hour to make duplicate of every interaction listed here...
                    I'm gonna PM someone to rework format of such entries on buglist, it's impossible to find.
                    You gotta FIGHT!
                    For Your RIGHT!
                    To BUUUGFIX!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yeah :/ They should probably make a list like the interaction with death list on the bugs list
                      Comprehensive Damage Reduction & Amplifications Dota 2 Guide

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Static link working on spirit bear is actually a pretty big deal.

                        It actually means Razor does a LOT better versus LD than he should. It's even being abused by DD versus Mouz right now.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Desvelga View Post
                          Static link working on spirit bear is actually a pretty big deal.

                          It actually means Razor does a LOT better versus LD than he should. It's even being abused by DD versus Mouz right now.
                          Still has not been even touched at all, happening once again in Raidcall D2L with Dignitas v Liquid. Can there at least be a dev response that this is the intended "fix"?

                          Or is this going to be another one of those ignored bugs like Armlet LD bug and won't be fixed for like 2 years or something?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Desvelga View Post

                            Or is this going to be another one of those ignored bugs like Armlet LD bug and won't be fixed for like 2 years or something?
                            That wasn't a bug. That got recently changed in DotA1, and taken over to Dota2.
                            Please, just call me buny.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by bu3ny View Post
                              That wasn't a bug. That got recently changed in DotA1, and taken over to Dota2.
                              Then can it be changed within the buglist? It's still listed under there.

                              I really don't recall static link being able to be casted on Spirit Bear and it seems odd to me they'd completely switch this matchup without listing it in the patch notes. (I've looked through several notes and only thing I can see even slightly reminiscent of this is it being able to be casted on magic immunes, so maybe this would incorporate ancients [aka Spirit Bear]?)

                              Comment

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