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[Confirmed] Backswing & Movement Commands

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  • [Confirmed] Backswing & Movement Commands

    Many heroes in Dota 2 continue to use their backswing time whereas their wc3 counterparts do not. The most prominent ones are Meepo and Batrider, among others. In short, casting animation (frontswing) and backswing for both versions are inconsistent for many heroes. Most of the time Dota 2's heroes are at a disadvantage, but there are exceptions where playing that specific hero is easier in Dota 2 (check google docs link below)

    Feb 02, 2013 edit:
    I have compiled a comparison of all the spells of all the heroes currently in Dota 2 with their wc3 counterparts.

    Google Doc regarding casting frontswings/backswings.

    June 17, 2015 edit:
    This list hasn't been updated for 2 years. I'm pretty sure a lot of the information here is outdated by now, especially after that patch which changed a lot of heroes backswing/frontswing animations (its been a looong time) If anyone wants the google doc file permissions send me a PM or something.

    ***************************


    Please tell me if I have gotten anything wrong so I can edit it, or send me a PM if you are interested in editing it yourself.

    Note: CA = cast animation (or cast frontswing), BS = backswing. "Cancellable During" refers to the backswing being cancellable during CA or BS. The frontswing can not be cancelled if the spell is to be cast. If the spell does not have a frontswing, it is instantly cast and cannot be stopped from happening once the hotkey/button is pressed.

    Note: Since the Feb 7 Update, Meepo and Batrider (as well as several others) have been completely fixed. Use the videos below for reference only

    For some spells in Dota 2, If you right click during the cast animation (frontswing), the backswing is not cancelled. You have to right click during the actual backswing animation time. In the videos, I right click directly after casting Earthbind/Sticky Napalm.

    Meepo Video:
    In the video, I did not make sure the cast distance was the same between wc3 and dota2. My point is that the cast backswing is ignored in wc3 if you right click after. I sync the two clips based on the moment I click the ground to target Earthbind. Take note of the duration for Meepo to start moving after casting.




    Batrider Video:



    2. In wc3, if you shift-queue a movement command (right click) after casting Sticky Napalm, the backswing seems to be cancelled. In dota2 the backswing is still there.



    3. Sticky Napalm's animation (not the actual spell effect) is delayed slightly in Dota 2. Watch the following video in 720p to see clearer:






    Updates that patched certain backswing issues (Retesting findings are also reflected in the google doc):
    Feb 6/7 Update Notes | Retesting findings
    Feb 13/14 Update Notes | Retesting findings
    Feb 27/28 update notes | Restesting findings
    March 27/28 update (Bristleback) | No retests done, but added Bristleback info
    April 17/18 update (Skywrath Mage) | No retests done, but added Skywrath Mage info
    May 1/2 update (Elder Titan) | No retests done, but added Elder Titan info
    June 3/4 update (Skeleton King's Critical Strike changed to Mortal Strike) | No retests done, but added Mortal Strike info
    June 12/13 Update | Retesting findings
    July 10/11 Update (Abaddon) | No retests done, but added Abaddon info
    July 17/18 Update | fixes for 29 spells, updated doc
    July 26 Update | Shadow Demon's Shadow Poison Release fixed, updated doc
    Three Spirits Update (November 14) | added Earth Spirit and Ember Spirit info


    In case you missed it or TL;DR : Link to the Google Doc of all current Dota 2 Heroes' backswings (last updated Feb 2013)
    Last edited by hoh0; 06-17-2015, 06:36 PM. Reason: info

  • #2
    added to sticky.

    might be worth to check other spells for similar oddities too.
    i can recall quite a few inconsistencies that might be due to this (e.g. batrider).
    Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

    Contributions i'd like to highlight:
    My Suggestion: Coaching System
    My Sticky: Intended Changes List
    My Challenge: Completely Fixed Hero Challenge: Skywrath Mage

    Comment


    • #3
      Checked Batrider, Lion and CM

      Basically, in wc3, you can cancel the backswing by right clicking (once is enough) right after the heroes' cast animation started, and the backswing would be cancelled.
      In dota2, you have to right click during the actual backswing.

      Batrider: Same problem with Sticky Napalm. Unsure about other skills.

      Lion: Same problem with Impale. Hex is instant cast, so couldn't really test. For his Finger of Death, it is a little bit different. You cannot right click immediately while casting FOD (when lion starts to light up blue) - Lion will continue to use his animation. You can animation cancel during the backswing, though - which makes it same as dota2 FOD behaviour.

      CM: It appears that her spell animation backswing has been reduced in dota 2(?) I remember her backswing being very long, and playdota.com says it is 2.4. Crystal Nova in wc3 doesn't seem to have this backswing, or has a much lesser duration, as opposed to Frostbite, where she continues to "fake channel" it. In dota2, it has the "changed" backswing duration for both Crystal Nova and Frostbite. Again, you have to right click during this backswing if you want to animation cancel.

      Comment


      • #4
        Added some videos regarding Batrider in the main post, do check them out.

        Comment


        • #5
          hey open could I suggest you a video comparing blood seeker and dota 1 and 2? The cast animation for blood rage in dota 2 seems over long and uncancellable. It really hinders his chasing having to stop for so long to cast it.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm not so sure about this. A few days ago I remember testing backswing interaction in wc3 and results were that you have to issue a movement command after the cast animation finishes (when the backswing begins) in order to cancel the backswing (same as dota2). But I've also noticed that this behavior is different per skill/hero like how dota1's meepo's nets not having any backswing at all.

            Maybe Meepo and Bat's skills are exceptions rather than the rule?
            Here's my dotabuff profile in case anyone's interested: https://dotabuff.com/players/5887247

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Frost View Post
              I'm not so sure about this. A few days ago I remember testing backswing interaction in wc3 and results were that you have to issue a movement command after the cast animation finishes (when the backswing begins) in order to cancel the backswing (same as dota2). But I've also noticed that this behavior is different per skill/hero like how dota1's meepo's nets not having any backswing at all.

              Maybe Meepo and Bat's skills are exceptions rather than the rule?
              You are right, about them being exceptions.

              So I did more testing in both wc3 and Dota 2 based on which heroes I have the impression of slow backswing animations.


              edit: re-tested everything, check main post google spreadsheet, or here.
              Last edited by hoh0; 02-02-2013, 01:18 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Frost View Post
                I'm not so sure about this. A few days ago I remember testing backswing interaction in wc3 and results were that you have to issue a movement command after the cast animation finishes (when the backswing begins) in order to cancel the backswing (same as dota2). But I've also noticed that this behavior is different per skill/hero like how dota1's meepo's nets not having any backswing at all.

                Maybe Meepo and Bat's skills are exceptions rather than the rule?
                no. there is no such rule. u need to understand how the spells r coded to know whether it will have a backswing or not.

                Comment


                • #9
                  This is an excellent contribution to bringing parity between the two games. Thank you.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    i would love to see BR fixed to work the same as wc3 one. br was one of my fav heros in wc3, but just isnt the same on dota 2

                    rly good job op. i appreciate it

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      def noticed it too. they have to be careful to get the feel right. esp on meepo the net thing is a big deal.

                      it feels sluggish.
                      thanks for taking the time to compare. needs to be fixed asap imo

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Eric37073 View Post
                        no. there is no such rule. u need to understand how the spells r coded to know whether it will have a backswing or not.
                        Read the post above you.

                        While I'm no expert on the subject, I do know that some spells in dota1 weren't actually spells but triggered events. This is why many of those spells have weird interactions or inconsistencies with casting animations and backswings and stuff. Pulse nova/rot is a simple example of a skill that can be triggered on/off without interrupting your hero. And the old diabolic edict was an example of how a skill can be 'casted' without having casting animations and/or backswing.
                        Last edited by Frost; 10-05-2012, 06:39 AM.
                        Here's my dotabuff profile in case anyone's interested: https://dotabuff.com/players/5887247

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          why was this unstickied

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Great work Hoho! Keep it up!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Noticed that Lion's impale is much harder to cancel in Dota 2 compared to Dota 1 once you've given a command to cast it. It's as if you lose control of Lion for a second.

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