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[Confirmed] Positioning on Cliffs/Terrain Bug List

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  • [Confirmed] Positioning on Cliffs/Terrain Bug List

    Hey guys, with the whole Skewer thing I got curious and I've tried all the effects I could imagine to move people (allied or enemies) to the rune spot cliffs or any other different altitude zone.

    (Wisp/Ezalor/Invoker works fine)

    Here is the list:

    HERO ABILITIES

    Earthshaker: this hero CANNOT move people into cliffs with his first skill in DotA 1, but in DotA 2 you can (allied or enemy doesn't matter).
    Dark Seer: this hero CANNOT vacuum in DotA on cliffs in DotA 1, but he can in DotA 2.
    Rubick: this hero CANNOT put someone on a cliff with telekinesis in DotA 1, but he can in DotA 2.
    Magnus: this hero CANNOT put himself or enemys on a cliff with Skewer in DotA 1, but in Dota 2 he can.
    Chaos Knight: this hero CANNOT put himself or his illusions on a cliff in DotA1, but you can do it in DotA 2.
    Naga Siren: this hero CANNOT put himself or his illusions on a cliff in DotA1, but you can do it in DotA 2.

    ITEM ABILITIES

    Force Staff: This item CANNOT put you or an enemy into a cliff when activated in Dota 1, but you can do it in DotA 2
    Manta Style: This item CANNOT put you or your illusion on a cliff when you activate in Dota 1, but you can do it in DotA 2

    Cliff/Movement Extra Bugs

    Tiny: Tiny Can't toss anything to an allied unit (This means in DotA 2 are 2 bugs, you are able to send an enemy flying to an ally -or an allied group- and you can do a toss with only an allied unit close -being himself the tossed unit and the toss target).

    Wisp: Wisp got fixed on Ulting creeps (moving them to strategic locations) but the fix doesn't include the porting back after the ult is over (you can grab a creep and send him to the position you are, triggering the same effect)

    Hope this is useful :P

    BTW I tested this in both games, so I'm sure the behavior is not the same on both games.

    Repro for Shaker: have a unit still near a cliff and put him on the cliff by using his first skill forcing the unit to move above the cliff.
    Repro for Rubick: have an enemy near a cliff and put him on the cliff by using telekinesis and targeting the cliff as final spot.
    Repro for Magnus: use forcestaff at 450-ish units of a cliff, you can get above the cliff
    Repro for Chaos Knight: use your ultimate near a spot with different altitude, you or an illusion will be sent to the higher ground (this is random and it's limited in dota 1)
    Repro for Dark Seer: Vacuum on a cliff, you can do this, in DotA 1 you can't.

    Force Staff Repro is the same as the one for Magnus and the Manta Style is the same the one for Chaos Knight or Naga Siren.

    Tested All of this in WC3 DotA v6.75b and In DotA 2 Test Client, Latest patch at the moment (October 4th, 2012)

    btw the repro on Naga Siren is kinda really hard, so I recommend WTF for this tests :P

    PS: I know I didn't followed the format but as this is a big bug report and easy to understand I though it would be more efficient to do this in a list. Any question you have of those bugs just ask and I'll answer the fast I can.
    Last edited by knurlhelm; 10-04-2012, 02:36 PM.

  • #2
    Alright. You CAN move between different altitude zones with MOST of these skills in DotA 1, it's just some areas are coded not to let you, i.e. vacuum stating "cannot use vacuum here" etc. These are the areas in which you can't get out of, so sentinel side warding cliff near the larger neutrals, a couple at ward spots etc.

    Some others (such as naga mirror images, feral wolves etc.) shouldn't be able to spawn units down cliffs, but stuck in trees is allowable in WC3.

    You should probably state something to do with inescapable areas, not just cliffs... It's due to coding, more than just the terrain height at that area.

    IMO for Earthshaker and unit generation the bug is because of a flawed "overcrowding" system, it should consider the next nearest available area, through pathing to be used... I.e. batrider would be able to spawn up the cliff since he is flying, however a naga, if a unit is meant to spawn up (or in) the cliff, then it should be placed on the closest position available through pathing.

    At the moment it's just considering the closest available position to where it should spawn, be it down a cliff or up one
    Last edited by Wyn-Ryder; 10-04-2012, 06:16 PM.
    Comprehensive Damage Reduction & Amplifications Dota 2 Guide

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    • #3
      They should change dota 1 to allow it.
      In dota 2 it is absolutly ok and is already in it since DS is in dota2.
      Originally posted by Ttempest
      Duh... its the IceFrog dude. Kinda like Chuck Norris just in Dota.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Wyn-Ryder View Post
        Alright. You CAN move between different altitude zones with MOST of these skills in DotA 1, it's just some areas are coded not to let you, i.e. vacuum stating "cannot use vacuum here" etc. These are the areas in which you can't get out of, so sentinel side warding cliff near the larger neutrals, a couple at ward spots etc.

        Some others (such as naga mirror images, feral wolves etc.) shouldn't be able to spawn units down cliffs, but stuck in trees is allowable in WC3.

        You should probably state something to do with inescapable areas, not just cliffs... It's due to coding, more than just the terrain height at that area.

        IMO for Earthshaker and unit generation the bug is because of a flawed "overcrowding" system, it should consider the next nearest available area, through pathing to be used... I.e. batrider would be able to spawn up the cliff since he is flying, however a naga, if a unit is meant to spawn up (or in) the cliff, then it should be placed on the closest position available through pathing.

        At the moment it's just considering the closest available position to where it should spawn, be it down a cliff or up one
        Yes, you can go in with blink and you can move allies there, but you usually can't move enemies because you can lock em up there, that's the bug I'm pointing out mostly, the Manta Style is a totally different thing, this is also happening on cliffs, but on ANY area of different altitude (you can't pass to that area walking) you can spawn an illusion (or yourself, since it's random) and this only happens on DotA 2, In DotA 1 it's coded so all the illusions stays on the altitude they are, that's why I'm pointing the altitude issue.

        Also, I´ve limited most of this bug report to rune spot cliffs because, as you also said, those areas are coded to make imposible to lock people there alone, It is a matter of inescapable areas in the 4 spots of the runes, but the Manta Style (or naga/chaos) part is about the cliff, and in all the cases are higher ground, or as some people name it, Lvl3 ground, those spots are where we usually ward (rune spots or high altitude spot in the jungle).

        And It's clear to me that for now it's just looking the closest position, but they have a spot (near radiant first top tower) when you have some terrain you can't put a ward, nor yourself and you will "pass it" if you blink to that part. Thing is they don't allow it on DotA, if the frog say it's intended then all cool (but I don't think he will, since he made the vacuum there forbidden), but now it's just a matter of parity, and since the terrain will be modified to allow the skewer to pass it (or it should -cuz of the [Confirmed] tag on the reports-) they could fix those bugs too.


        Originally posted by Equal View Post
        They should change dota 1 to allow it.
        In dota 2 it is absolutly ok and is already in it since DS is in dota2.
        Yup, In DotA 2 may be ok for you, but it's a parity change they should do (or clarify as intended) and the "They should change dota 1 to allow it" is not relevant, if Icefrog wanna change this he can do it (since he can just remove the Vacuum limitation and he haven't, and they put a limitation on tiny and I think it's for the same reason) but he have not done it, so for now it's not intended. (oh and btw you logic implies that there are no bugs on the heroes already released and there are plenty :P)

        Comment


        • #5
          you realise the "different altitude" problem is one of the most high priority "problems" or changes to the game, yet in this gigantic patch Icefrog decided to do nothing about it.

          what does that tell you? your little list of skills that can move people onto cliffs pretty much tells you this mechanic is here to stay, so stop whining about it and carry a TP.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by jokertard View Post
            you realise the "different altitude" problem is one of the most high priority "problems" or changes to the game, yet in this gigantic patch Icefrog decided to do nothing about it.

            what does that tell you? your little list of skills that can move people onto cliffs pretty much tells you this mechanic is here to stay, so stop whining about it and carry a TP.
            The tard part of your nick suits you, if you read the intended bug fix list or the common bug list you'll realize this is not there, i think because they don't find it that important, but considering the parity of the game is affected and they haven't posted this is intended (yeah, I searched before starting the thread) implies that it should be reported, as I stated before if the frog says this is intended that would be fine, but in 6.75 YOU CAN'T Vacuum on inescapable areas, what does that tell you? it's not intended.

            About the whining, I never whined, this is a bug report, never said it was annoying or that this must be fixed now because it's gamebreaking or something that you can consider whining, I just listed the bug instances, and I pretty much always carry a tp, so this happened to me like 2 times in 700 games and I got away from it pretty easy, so your comment is pretty much of a fail.

            Btw by your logic, in this gigantic patch "Icefrog" (I put that on "" because Icefrog is not the dev that would fix this) did Chen able to control Roshan, is that here to stay too? because that IS a high priority problem Mr. Tard :P

            Comment


            • #7
              added to the sticky.
              Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

              Contributions i'd like to highlight:
              My Suggestion: Coaching System
              My Sticky: Intended Changes List
              My Challenge: Completely Fixed Hero Challenge: Skywrath Mage

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by knurlhelm View Post
                Yes, you can go in with blink and you can move allies there, but you usually can't move enemies because you can lock em up there, that's the bug I'm pointing out mostly, the Manta Style is a totally different thing, this is also happening on cliffs, but on ANY area of different altitude (you can't pass to that area walking) you can spawn an illusion (or yourself, since it's random) and this only happens on DotA 2, In DotA 1 it's coded so all the illusions stays on the altitude they are, that's why I'm pointing the altitude issue.
                The manta bug isn't just change in altitude, going up a ramp is changing in altitude... But they can still spawn up a ramp. And it's not just manta, it's any skill that spawns a unit in front of you or randomly placed (feral wolves, invoker's summons etc.), i.e. untargettable. It's about the tree-less pathable terrain (so, yes. cliffs and ledges, but excluding ramps)
                Comprehensive Damage Reduction & Amplifications Dota 2 Guide

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by knurlhelm View Post
                  Tiny: Tiny Can't toss anything to an allied unit (This means in DotA 2 are 2 bugs, you are able to send an enemy flying to an ally -or an allied group- and you can do a toss with only an allied unit close -being himself the tossed unit and the toss target).
                  Ofc you can toss units to an ally 0.0; never played tiny + techies? (and i mean the mine version, not the suicide);
                  what you might mean, is that you cant toss to your own units; mby to abuse blinking on a hill, creating necros, forcing down and toss somebody up to your necros.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Silverman View Post
                    Ofc you can toss units to an ally 0.0; never played tiny + techies? (and i mean the mine version, not the suicide);
                    what you might mean, is that you cant toss to your own units; mby to abuse blinking on a hill, creating necros, forcing down and toss somebody up to your necros.
                    Self owned units cannot be the target of toss. I am not entirely sure if they can be tossed. Not just plain allied units, he probably just mistyped.
                    Comprehensive Damage Reduction & Amplifications Dota 2 Guide

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Silverman View Post
                      Ofc you can toss units to an ally 0.0; never played tiny + techies? (and i mean the mine version, not the suicide);
                      what you might mean, is that you cant toss to your own units; mby to abuse blinking on a hill, creating necros, forcing down and toss somebody up to your necros.
                      Originally posted by Wyn-Ryder View Post
                      Self owned units cannot be the target of toss. I am not entirely sure if they can be tossed. Not just plain allied units, he probably just mistyped.
                      My bad, I was talking about the self owned units, In WC3 DotA you can't toss a self made unit but in DotA 2 you can (tried with necro and dominator)

                      And yeah, that was the point, you can use the perma rune creep strat with Tiny to toss people into cliffs.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jokertard View Post
                        you realise the "different altitude" problem is one of the most high priority "problems" or changes to the game, yet in this gigantic patch Icefrog decided to do nothing about it.

                        what does that tell you? your little list of skills that can move people onto cliffs pretty much tells you this mechanic is here to stay, so stop whining about it and carry a TP.
                        It took 2 patches for IceFrog to change fog of war vs blink. ??? Just because it hasn't been done doesn't mean it wont be done.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hey, clockwerks power cogs are also able to knock/push people onto cliffs whereas they are unable to do so in DotA 1.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There is a bug that Spectre's Spectral Dagger doesn't let you move through cliffs, nor trees.
                            It actually does rarely enables you to go "inside" a group of trees, but then you get stuck and can't get out without breaking trees using (quelling blade, etc.)

                            In DotA 1, it used to be a bit hard to go through cliffs and trees, but was possible,while in DotA 2 it is impossible to do so.
                            I have played so many games using her, and always die several times trying to go through trees.

                            When I command her to move through trees, she just move around them, even though I click on the beginning of trees, then again a bit further, and so on.
                            I was able to get inside groups of trees once or twice, but then get stuck, and unable to move out of them.

                            While when commanding her to move through a cliff, she faces the cliff, moves, and keep moving in her place, as if she is actually going to move through it, but going back to her place again and again, same as when you try to get out of the map in DotA 2, she blinks back to the map as soon as you reach the border of the map.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Equal View Post
                              They should change dota 1 to allow it.
                              In dota 2 it is absolutly ok and is already in it since DS is in dota2.
                              +1

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