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[Confirmed] Outworld Devourer & int gain from astral imprisonment

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  • [Confirmed] Outworld Devourer & int gain from astral imprisonment

    Well you fixed OD's enemies losing enough mana, but didn't fix OD gaining enough. If I understand correctly, OD's difference between his mana after casting, and his full mana pool should be the same (i.e. NOT percentage, you add 13 on each time you get 1 int off an enemy), assuming his aura doesn't proc.

    This probably requires you guys to apply the same thing in reverse for OD

    Awaiting typhox to make this thread more epic.
    Comprehensive Damage Reduction & Amplifications Dota 2 Guide

  • #2
    Yes, still wrong is mana-gain on OD, mana-loss on OD (after the buff runs out) and mana-loss on the enemy (after the buff runs out). As an OD player, I'm happy like this currently (in DotA 1 that mechanic was able to refill an oom enemy completely). They should just save the stolen mana with the buff and give it back after the buff ran out. So when OD steals 20 mana from you, you don't get 130 mana after the buff runs out, but only the 20 you lost. Maybe should also make the stolen mana to be actually stolen. Afaik improving the mechanic in DotA 1 like this is not possible or at least not easily (because it is an unintended side effect of the int-steal mechanic).

    Comment


    • #3
      Confirmed with vids! since I already reserved some time for tonight.

      lvl1 OD with lvl1 AI (120 manacost)
      dota2: 142 - 120 + int_mana(??) -> 25
      dota1: 144 - 120 + int_mana(52) -> 76

      dota2:


      dota1:
      Last edited by adrianlegg; 03-06-2013, 04:27 PM.
      You gotta FIGHT!
      For Your RIGHT!
      To BUUUGFIX!

      Comment


      • #4
        confirmed, +1

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Typhox View Post
          Yes, still wrong is mana-gain on OD, mana-loss on OD (after the buff runs out) and mana-loss on the enemy (after the buff runs out). As an OD player, I'm happy like this currently (in DotA 1 that mechanic was able to refill an oom enemy completely). They should just save the stolen mana with the buff and give it back after the buff ran out. So when OD steals 20 mana from you, you don't get 130 mana after the buff runs out, but only the 20 you lost. Maybe should also make the stolen mana to be actually stolen. Afaik improving the mechanic in DotA 1 like this is not possible or at least not easily (because it is an unintended side effect of the int-steal mechanic).
          Lol :P I don't think it matters that you're happy, I'd be more happy if it was correct
          Comprehensive Damage Reduction & Amplifications Dota 2 Guide

          Comment


          • #6
            Update Notes - March 6, 2013
            03/06/13

            GAMEPLAY
            - Gyrocopter: Fixed Rocket Barrage firing while under effects like Disruption/Chronosphere/Doom/Hex.
            - Gyrocopter: Fixed Flak Cannon hurting nightmared units without waking them up.
            - Naga Siren: Fixed being able to purge Song of the Siren aura off of Naga Siren.
            - Nyx: Fixed Spiked Carapace affecting Juggernaut during Omnislash.
            - Outworld Devourer: Fixed Astral Imprisonment not draining enough mana from enemy heroes.
            - Timbersaw: Fixed Whirling Death not doing enough damage against strength heroes.
            - Fixed Maelstrom and Mjollnir being unable to proc if the initial target is Magic Immune.
            - Tweaked Neutral Creep chase timings for the two small camps.
            - Fixed a number of bugs in Mechanics I, including all known showstoppers.

            UI
            - Fixed holding alt causing smoked hero names to be shown on minimap when near truesight.
            - Fixed your status showing as playing a local bot game if you were spectating a game
            - Hero performance page is now sorted by total number of games played.
            - Fixed Dire wins in the Team Game History tab showing up as losses.
            - Fixed bug where Team Game History wasn't refreshing properly.
            - The Teams List under Community now displays Teams in order of their most recently played match.
            - There's now a dialog asking the player to rate their currently-used hero build (if it's not yet been rated).

            AUDIO
            - Music now plays in spectator and replay modes.

            ITEMS
            - Added Fiery Soul of the Slayer item for Lina.
            Grand job.
            DOTA 2 ULTIMATE README
            Updated 01/04/15

            Check upcoming Dota 2 pro matches HERE

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Wyn-Ryder View Post
              Lol :P I don't think it matters that you're happy, I'd be more happy if it was correct
              I leave that for the devs to decide.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Typhox View Post
                Yes, still wrong is mana-gain on OD, mana-loss on OD (after the buff runs out) and mana-loss on the enemy (after the buff runs out). As an OD player, I'm happy like this currently (in DotA 1 that mechanic was able to refill an oom enemy completely). They should just save the stolen mana with the buff and give it back after the buff ran out. So when OD steals 20 mana from you, you don't get 130 mana after the buff runs out, but only the 20 you lost. Maybe should also make the stolen mana to be actually stolen. Afaik improving the mechanic in DotA 1 like this is not possible or at least not easily (because it is an unintended side effect of the int-steal mechanic).
                This is just completely wrong.
                - Astral Imprisonment debuff appliance substracts 52/78/104/130 mana from both Max and Current MP. This is the only change they have made.
                - Astral Imprisonment debuff removal adds 52/78/104/130 mana to the Max MP only, while keeping the Current:Max MP ratio constant.

                - Astral Imprisonment buff aspect is also fully untouched.
                - For an additional note, the order of events is like this: Destroyer casts Astral Imprisonment > Manacost (120/140/160/180) substracted from the Current MP > 52/78/104/130 mana added to the Max MP > Current MP gets scaled to keep the ratio


                There is no such thing like "store the substracted amount of mana, and add only that much after the buff gets removed". They are not that so advanced. You probably had thought that there is such a thing, because you wished that there was such a thing...
                Also, call it improvement/tweak, whatever you want, that is just a balance suggestion.
                Biased approach... Kills proper reporting/fixing of bugs...

                Man I am so full of hate right now. You were so angry about this being bugged all this time. It is still bugged, and you say "I am happy", just because this time the bug is benefical to your beloved hero.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ThoAppelsin View Post
                  There is no such thing like "store the substracted amount of mana, and add only that much after the buff gets removed". They are not that so advanced. You probably had thought that there is such a thing, because you wished that there was such a thing...
                  Exactly what I wrote. Learn 2 read.

                  Originally posted by ThoAppelsin View Post
                  Also, call it improvement/tweak, whatever you want, that is just a balance suggestion.
                  A balance change that can not be made in DotA 1.

                  Originally posted by ThoAppelsin View Post
                  Man I am so full of hate right now. You were so angry about this being bugged all this time. It is still bugged, and you say "I am happy", just because this time the bug is benefical to your beloved hero.
                  No, I wasn't angry about this being bugged, in fact, I knew of this bug since November. The reason why I didn't report it was that I know Valve fixes everything where OD is in an advantage and leaves every bug where he is on a disadvantage. I spent 4 months evaluating if OD is better with the new behaviour or with the old behaviour. Keep in mind that Astral Imprisonment is already nerfed pretty drastically by fixing that WC3 engine limitation that causes units under the effect of AI to not get triggered XP (from denies for example).

                  Let me see, what did you do to find this bug? Oh right, nothing! Good job!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    There's no reason for hatred. And who said it "couldn't be done" in dota1?

                    The thing is :
                    1) in dota1 AI manipulates base int, not mana.
                    2) everything in dota1 obeys: changing base stats changes hp/mana by flat value
                    For what You want Typhox, AI should either be about "int and mana steal"(redundant), or to change 2nd rule. Personally I dislike both.

                    Maybe it sux when enemy from 50/300 becomes 0/170 and 130/300, but that's dota.
                    It seems inconsistent only because in dota2 You have "base_stats - stolen", while in dota1, You have only final value, and no debuff icon at all, so it's almost like You would "gain" this int.

                    As per topic I don't know why in dota2 almost every stat change by default is "keeping ratio", which made exact same bug for every stat-changing-skill there was (undy 1vs3 in hardlane like a boss) and still exists for such basic stuff as hp/mana gain from lvlup.
                    You gotta FIGHT!
                    For Your RIGHT!
                    To BUUUGFIX!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by adrianlegg View Post
                      And who said it "couldn't be done" in dota1?
                      I'm saying it. The only way to do it in DotA 1 would be to not make it suck base int. But doing that would change that skill quite a lot.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I would say I doubt it, but this puts me in position where I should prove it. And I lack time/will to learn JASS more then for reading it.
                        But from what I've seen already You got all components:
                        Code:
                         <stolen> = 4,6,8,10
                         createdummyunit with max_mana = <stolen>*13, (+0 int for 0 regeneration)
                         set dummy current mana to <target> current mana (with cap at max, if necessary)
                         normal decrease <target> int
                         
                         x=current <source> mana
                         increase <source> int 
                         <source> mana = x+ dummy mana (to ignore additional mana from above line)
                        
                        trigger for 60s to dummy to cast reverse concept: 
                         for target: 'store mana as x, int++,set mana x+stolen' (stolen from dummy unit current mana)
                         for source: same but 'x-stolen' or whatever makes more sense at this point
                        
                        (if setting max mana directly can't be done, then You can binary code it as 8 abilities and then decipher in code)
                        If You have enough JASS knowledge to say what from above concept wouldn't work then ok, it can't be done.
                        On the other hand if only response would be : "code it and You'll see", then I won't bother.
                        Last edited by adrianlegg; 03-07-2013, 12:47 PM.
                        You gotta FIGHT!
                        For Your RIGHT!
                        To BUUUGFIX!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          did this outlive the test client?
                          Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

                          Contributions i'd like to highlight:
                          My Suggestion: Coaching System
                          My Sticky: Intended Changes List
                          My Challenge: Completely Fixed Hero Challenge: Skywrath Mage

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yes, still present in main client.
                            You gotta FIGHT!
                            For Your RIGHT!
                            To BUUUGFIX!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              added to sticky.
                              Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

                              Contributions i'd like to highlight:
                              My Suggestion: Coaching System
                              My Sticky: Intended Changes List
                              My Challenge: Completely Fixed Hero Challenge: Skywrath Mage

                              Comment

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