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[Confirmed] Dota 2 Lacks the "Averagizer" for the Attack Damages and Gold Bounties

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  • walkingcarpet
    replied
    Originally posted by GermanViet View Post
    Bumping this and adding: http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/commen...ally_random_i/

    However this thread says that the actual distribution is somewhat equal. See this picture from first post. And the reddit thread says the exact opposite? (It's skewed towards the middle. In the picture the expected graph.)

    Not sure how it should work exactly but this might have to be reviewed?
    He could have demonstrated this with *any* hero but happened to choose CK. Every hero uses the same normal attack damage calculation system.

    In short, it is a uniform distribution when it should be a normal distribution.

    Leave a comment:


  • imxtrabored
    replied
    In addition, the top comment summarizes the actual Chaos Bolt mechanic nicely. The result distribution is indicative of an even distribution, if you assume that it is post-rounding.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kryil-
    replied
    This thread is talking about normal attacks. The reddit thread is talking about Chaos Bolt. The reddit thread says the exact opposite because it's not the same topic.

    Leave a comment:


  • GermanViet
    replied
    Bumping this and adding: http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/commen...ally_random_i/

    However this thread says that the actual distribution is somewhat equal. See this picture from first post. And the reddit thread says the exact opposite? (It's skewed towards the middle. In the picture the expected graph.)

    Not sure how it should work exactly but this might have to be reviewed?

    Leave a comment:


  • formose
    replied
    Originally posted by Rainer View Post
    Just for lucky CK's
    As you can see WO this statistical system the chance of doing high damage increases as well as for low damages ; so basically if you are lucky you deal big damage more often and if you are unlucky you deal small damages
    Low damage doesn't make last hitting hard, inconsistency makes last hitting hard. CK is an especially interesting case because his damage range is roughly centered on 65, considered the bad range for last hitting. At least if you know you're going to hit around 65 you can drop items to reduce damage, but if Valve decides not to disclose fucking anything at all you're going to miss half of your last hits under tower due to pure chance even if you drop items.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rainer
    replied
    Originally posted by whaleye View Post
    If this is true it's a big deal as it would make last hitting a lot harder on ck and other high damage spread heroes.
    Just for lucky CK's
    As you can see WO this statistical system the chance of doing high damage increases as well as for low damages ; so basically if you are lucky you deal big damage more often and if you are unlucky you deal small damages

    Leave a comment:


  • Wyn-Ryder
    replied
    It also includes demolish-based damage increases... (That's why you see large crits against creeps sometimes) and it shouldn't.
    Last edited by Wyn-Ryder; 04-26-2013, 05:19 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kryil-
    replied
    Originally posted by Arxos View Post
    If you're talking about the red numbers that show up, they don't actually adjust to what the attack actually rolled or even things like armor, so yeah you'll always see a CK crit for the same amount according to those numbers.
    The actual damage dealt is different, though.
    No. Crits show the damage that would be dealt without any reduction - the rolled dices are correctly displayed. Simply test it, the displayed values differ

    Leave a comment:


  • Arxos
    replied
    Originally posted by jokertard View Post
    I've noticed that ck's crit values don't fluctuate much and instead are at insanely high values considering he can crit around anywhere to 400 ~ 700 with no items at level 25
    If you're talking about the red numbers that show up, they don't actually adjust to what the attack actually rolled or even things like armor, so yeah you'll always see a CK crit for the same amount according to those numbers.
    The actual damage dealt is different, though.

    Leave a comment:


  • LxRogue
    replied
    Good catch. Relevant for last hitting with CK. Also makes for weird roshan bounties, which vary from 100-600.

    Leave a comment:


  • whaleye
    replied
    If this is true it's a big deal as it would make last hitting a lot harder on ck and other high damage spread heroes.

    Leave a comment:


  • walkingcarpet
    replied
    Good catch.

    Leave a comment:


  • imxtrabored
    replied
    It should be noted that:
    1. The "spiking values" from my tests is simply because I didnt do 1 million samples. Theoretically, the "Actual" line flattens out with more samples, since Valve is using just a normal RNG.
    2. As noted in the Brainstorming list linked to in the OP, different units use different amounts of die. With two die, the curve simply resembles a triangle with straight sides of slope 1. With more dice, the "width" of the curve decreases, meaning damages and bounties using more dice should fall even closer to average than damages and bounties using less dice.
    3. Plenty of units only use one damage/bounty die. Notably, lane creeps all use only one die for damage and bounty, and T1 and T2 towers use one damage die. Some neutral and summon bounties use up to 6-7 dice (Roshan uses 5). Heroes not on the list use one die.

    Leave a comment:


  • clan_iraq
    replied
    Not a prng with a normal distribution, not a hardcoded gauss bell, but as stated, an even distribution prng rolling multiple dice, which approximates a gauss bell. With only 1 die, its an even distribution.

    Valve could either use the same dice system, or use a different PRNG function to directly distribute normally. It would be slightly different for heroes like CK, and much different for heroes with 1 die, but make things much simpler, and Id argue, improved. Just make damage/bounties use a normal distribution is all.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kryil-
    replied
    No, he said, that the damage range is the same as in wc3. However, it is completly random which values occures (all have the same chance) while the "spiking" values (very high or very low) should be less frequent and the average value should appear the most. Didn't knew wc3 used a gauss bell :x

    Leave a comment:

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