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[Confirmed] The Neutrals dont sleep tonight

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  • [Confirmed] The Neutrals dont sleep tonight

    im not sure if this is bug or not but in dota 1 they are sleeping so that means when you get close to them they dont attack you unless you did first, that's not in dota 2, i sometimes use the camps as a place to hide from enemies which is quite unfamiliar place for some of the people.
    extra information doesn't harm sometimes.

  • #2
    well, they still didn't implemented it (don't forget that creep were sleeping only the night, and not all of them)

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    • #3
      Intended change

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      • #4
        r u srs m8?

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        • #5
          I wouldn't call it intended, but it is known for a long time and no simple oversight.

          I remember an interview with synderen probably over a year ago where he said that he asked icefrog about this matter and when it will be implemented. Icefrogs response was the question why neutrals should sleep and that he should give an argument why having a sleep cycle is superior. While synderen said there are minor implications, in the greater scheme of things it really doesnt matter all that much and its up to a design choice.

          It's not on any list and probably should go on either one, but it is already known and kind of intentional for the moment

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          • #6
            Come on... this is ridiculous
            canSleep=1 makes units that are in the neutral hostile team sleep at night when idle
            canSleep=0 or absence of this setting leaves the unit awake all the time

            Was it that so hard for IceFrog to set them to zero for 10-15 neutral units, that he made such a comment..?

            If I were asked, my answer would be that those units are idle most of the time, and it seems just natural for some of them to spend their time sleeping while being idle. With some of them, I mean the ones for which it would be natural to sleep, like wolves and satyrs, unlike golems
            There are some gameplay impacts, but not big enough to mention in my opinion... It becomes somewhat important when you want to hide inside the juke spot behind the scourge ancient neutral camp of Black Drakes, to make your pursuants lose the track of you, while having extremely low health. Currently the Drake Camp would just give away that there is someone behind since they would be chasing you down to there and attacking you, which would also kill you since you were on low health.

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            • #7
              I don't know why he made such a comment. As quite some time is gone since that interview he possibly has forgotten the whole topic already.

              Personally I welcome many intentional changes, but in this case I wouldn't mind seeing the sleep cycle back. It was a nice detail.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ThoAppelsin View Post
                Come on... this is ridiculous
                canSleep=1 makes units that are in the neutral hostile team sleep at night when idle
                canSleep=0 or absence of this setting leaves the unit awake all the time

                Was it that so hard for IceFrog to set them to zero for 10-15 neutral units, that he made such a comment..?

                If I were asked, my answer would be that those units are idle most of the time, and it seems just natural for some of them to spend their time sleeping while being idle. With some of them, I mean the ones for which it would be natural to sleep, like wolves and satyrs, unlike golems
                There are some gameplay impacts, but not big enough to mention in my opinion... It becomes somewhat important when you want to hide inside the juke spot behind the scourge ancient neutral camp of Black Drakes, to make your pursuants lose the track of you, while having extremely low health. Currently the Drake Camp would just give away that there is someone behind since they would be chasing you down to there and attacking you, which would also kill you since you were on low health.
                this is exactly the idea of it, well said my friend

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                • #9
                  bump

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Belarion View Post
                    I wouldn't call it intended, but it is known for a long time and no simple oversight.

                    I remember an interview with synderen probably over a year ago where he said that he asked icefrog about this matter and when it will be implemented. Icefrogs response was the question why neutrals should sleep and that he should give an argument why having a sleep cycle is superior. While synderen said there are minor implications, in the greater scheme of things it really doesnt matter all that much and its up to a design choice.

                    It's not on any list and probably should go on either one, but it is already known and kind of intentional for the moment
                    You wouldn't call it intended after Icefrog said it was intended? You clearly even remember when it was stated... lol

                    Originally posted by mhd54 View Post
                    bump

                    While intended changes are open for discussion you really shouldn't bump it and congest the front page. If people feel the need to discuss it they'll do it on their own. Unless your hoping for blash to put it on the Intended Fix/Bug list. He probably wouldn't have done it anyway. Neutrals aren't completely fleshed out so you might as well just wait. It's not like Icefrog just forgot they were supposed to sleep or that he is missing ancients.

                    Also: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=1396
                    http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=47592
                    http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=5440

                    But this thread should suffice for discussion: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=34774

                    Though if we are postulating Icefrog's design choice for no real reason, like so:
                    Originally posted by ThoAppelsin View Post
                    Come on... this is ridiculous
                    canSleep=1 makes units that are in the neutral hostile team sleep at night when idle
                    canSleep=0 or absence of this setting leaves the unit awake all the time

                    Was it that so hard for IceFrog to set them to zero for 10-15 neutral units, that he made such a comment..?

                    If I were asked, my answer would be that those units are idle most of the time, and it seems just natural for some of them to spend their time sleeping while being idle. With some of them, I mean the ones for which it would be natural to sleep, like wolves and satyrs, unlike golems
                    There are some gameplay impacts, but not big enough to mention in my opinion... It becomes somewhat important when you want to hide inside the juke spot behind the scourge ancient neutral camp of Black Drakes, to make your pursuants lose the track of you, while having extremely low health. Currently the Drake Camp would just give away that there is someone behind since they would be chasing you down to there and attacking you, which would also kill you since you were on low health.
                    Then it is also quite possible Icefrog kept the minuscule change in Dota 2 to see the effect it would have since he believed there was no real reason to leave it in the game. The only reason they slept in the Dota map is because the ancient time it was created probably had them sleeping as per the normal for any Warcraft 3 map custom or actually in the game and there was no reason to change it because it was traditionally used in the every map. But, I find it reasonable that he would change the parameters and stop the creeps from sleeping in a later patch if he decided it was a better mechanic. I mean I do enjoy making useless guesses about why Icefrog does what he does and all, but it doesn't make this topic anymore useful.

                    So, in conclusion, the term Intended Change seems to fit quite well. Doesn't stop you from wasting your time discussing it. This topic should probably be closed since there is a larger topic already about it. Seriously mate, waste your time, seriously.
                    Last edited by Wiener; 05-14-2013, 03:29 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      They said almost a year ago that this is NOT intended and they will fix it. ( a lot of post about this topic at the time). I did not see anything to suggest they might have changed their minds as to label this as intended..

                      But this is annoying as random satyr waves are the norm nowadays.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Why we need this? E Z

                        Give me my old Traxex back, the one with ice-cold eyes and face paint!

                        Why do carries get all credit for winning a game where he goes 30 min afk farming while the rest is defending everything?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Shabutaro View Post
                          Why we need this? E Z
                          FAHFUEHUAEHFUSFAUGSE what the fuck was that

                          It won't work in Dota 2, Ogre Mauler and Ogre Magi models are different here, but still
                          I laid some good arguments on my previous post. I have no idea what there is in that pages long thread that got mentioned, but at any rate, it doesn't make my post or anyone elses post any less worthy, or a time waste.

                          Lay your own arguments for whichever version, otherwise just refrain

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ThoAppelsin View Post
                            FAHFUEHUAEHFUSFAUGSE what the fuck was that

                            It won't work in Dota 2, Ogre Mauler and Ogre Magi models are different here, but still
                            unfortunately, yes... well.. maybe next arcana item when sleeping neutrals get implemented
                            Give me my old Traxex back, the one with ice-cold eyes and face paint!

                            Why do carries get all credit for winning a game where he goes 30 min afk farming while the rest is defending everything?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              i definitely miss sleeping neutrals. even when being a support player myself who occasionally gets screwed over by the sleeping neutrals ignoring my pull attempts.
                              i wont add it to the intended changes list. maybe 6.78 sheds a bit more light on the matter (given how easy it is to change the wc3 dota mechanic).
                              Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

                              Contributions i'd like to highlight:
                              My Suggestion: Coaching System
                              My Sticky: Intended Changes List
                              My Challenge: Completely Fixed Hero Challenge: Skywrath Mage

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