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  • GermanViet
    replied
    I thought you cannot determine which ancients were destroyed first/which events happens first. You simply cannot make the time interval as small as possible. If a game happens to check every 10 second if racer A and B passed the line yet it will work highly inaccurate. (The next moment it checks it says both racer has passed the line. The game cannot tell which racer passed the line first. Or am I wrong in this assumption?) They can make it smaller and smaller but there is still a chance that it happens in the same time interval (alternativly it registers that both have passed the line in the very next time interval)..

    There may be an order in that exact time tick which information is proccessed first but how does it determine how the order is? The game isn't running smooth. It "jumps". Just like how computer cannot display real motion but only many, many pictures in a small period.
    I can understand strict orders such as when applying buffs/debuffs. "Nyx receives Desolator buff. Shadow Fiend hits Earthshaker for 120 damage. Shadow Fiend gets stunned by Nyx (spiked armor thingy)." (Order may be wrong. Just an example.) But how is the order for processing data determined when there is no real connection between the events?

    In this particular example both ancients were destroyed. So who did really win? Normally the timestamp from: "[XX:YY.ZZ] [Hero] hits [Faction]'s Ancient for 57 damage [XX:YY.ZZ] [Hero] receives Greater Bash debuff from [Faction]'s Ancient" is the absolut last timestamp in the combat log [XX:YY.ZZ]. This doesn't tell much because not everything is logged BUT:
    Even if there are projectiles flying at your opponents Factions which could lead to destuction of ancients. These hits are not counted. (I remember when I had a very close game. I was a hit away from enemy ancient destruction. My projectile was in the air but it didn't count.)

    I agree with you that the game can calculate in much smaller time intervals but what if it isn't small enough to see which happened first. What if in the next time interval the game registered both ancients were attacked. I don't know how the game can determine which happened first. It needs to calculate in even smaller time interval (What if it is still not small enough etc...). It is now just a matter of fact which information is proccessed first (my claim: this does not equate to happened first; if not: why?)

    The game could update every tick all events in a strict order. But if two unrelated events are updated according to that list it doesn't really mean that one event happened before the other one.

    If my assumption is correct:
    The chance of having a draw is very unlikly and not worth the programming effort but I am curious about the real answer. I need to be convinced x).

    TL;DR: In order to accuratly determine which ancient was hit first the time intervals has to be really really short. There is however still a possibility that the game registers both ancients to be hit in the very next time interval. In order to determine which was hit first you have to make the time interval even shorter.

    I don't understand how it is not possible for it to happen at the exact time (I can however understand this statement if you are talking about real world, but not in the digital world). But I am not a programmer so please correct me!

    Leave a comment:


  • Crowfeather
    replied
    Draw doesn't happen. Victor is the team which killed it first.
    The reason why the sound Dire Radiant victory sounds is because there is no check to see if the enemy ancient is already dead when playing the sound. It simply triggers after the death of an ancient....


    Also there is no possibility of "multi threading" causing an issue. Simply due to the fact that it is assumed that both threads are running under the same conditions. Not to mention for even an event to be considered you would require the 2nd ancient being destroyed within microseconds of the 1st ancient. Probably even less
    Last edited by Crowfeather; 09-04-2013, 03:00 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • jam3972
    replied
    Originally posted by bu3ny View Post
    This again.. No it can't happen. Tere simply isn't something like "at the exact same time". There IS an order, always. One ancient died before the other.

    If you want something like draw being an option in Dota, got to playdota.com and suggest it there.
    Except it's bugged right now and evidence points to dire always being the victor when it happens in the same net frame. To keep parity with the fact that dota 1 does not have draw, I submit that this behavior should just come down to a random roll.

    Leave a comment:


  • Obilisk
    replied
    Originally posted by bu3ny View Post
    ^Because one of them was first at the finish line. Only because the player gets milliseconds shown doesn't it mean that it can't calculate in much smaller intervals.
    Well, technically, if it was run on a multicore machine and the events were being processed in seperate threads, things *could* happen at the exact same time. Just sayin'. =)

    It would be incredibly stupid to program a game that way though imo. (You usually use only one thread for game logic, the others for non-game logic like sound, streaming resources from disc, additional graphics processing, etc.) Also, still absurdly unlikely to happen.

    It's a pointless argument to say that having a random winner in these situations is wrong though, dota 2 doesn't allow draws, so someone's going to randomly win. It isn't any less random than if you were + or - a one millisecond, the winner in those situations is still the result of dumb luck.

    Leave a comment:


  • bu3ny
    replied
    ^Because one of them was first at the finish line. Only because the player gets milliseconds shown doesn't it mean that it can't calculate in much smaller intervals.
    Last edited by bu3ny; 09-04-2013, 11:42 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vaxkiller
    replied
    Just like in Mario Kart, you may both have the same finish time down to the millisecond, but the comp chooses a winner...

    Leave a comment:


  • bu3ny
    replied
    This again.. No it can't happen. Tere simply isn't something like "at the exact same time". There IS an order, always. One ancient died before the other.

    If you want something like draw being an option in Dota, got to playdota.com and suggest it there.

    Leave a comment:


  • EmirSc
    replied
    Draw finale its a must, because it can happen.

    Leave a comment:


  • shideneyu
    replied
    I bump this interresting topic.

    Leave a comment:


  • shideneyu
    replied
    Draw should be implemented.

    Leave a comment:


  • Propkid
    replied
    1v1 between the carries after the draw, limited to the river area

    Anyway this is amazing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Shamanics
    replied
    Originally posted by bu3ny View Post
    There never can be a draw. There is nothing like something happenning at 100% the exact same time.
    Actually it can, for the computer at least, since both events can finish processing on the same clock tick (computer clock) then they happen at the same time for the computer, remember dota 2 engine is not linear like WC3 was.

    Leave a comment:


  • ViGosS
    replied
    funny but yea first time i am hearing this case in my 6 years of dota.

    the chances of this case to happen is like one out of 10000 matches.
    i dont think draw is a fair result, maybe ancient hp restored to 1000 for both team so something like that can be good.

    Leave a comment:


  • everlast
    replied
    Can you imagine if this happened during TI3?

    Leave a comment:


  • jam3972
    replied
    Originally posted by Noo View Post
    The Radiant can still win if a server disconnection happens.
    wait what? is this normal for draws? or are you just talking about random crashes?

    Cause I don't think we should rely on a random crash to balance the outcome of a game..

    Leave a comment:

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