Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules

  • No flaming or derogatory remarks, directly or through insinuation.
  • No discussion, sharing or referencing illegal software such as hacks, keygen, cracks and pirated software.
  • No offensive contents, including but not limited to, racism, gore or pornography.
  • No excessive spam/meme, i.e. copious one liners in a short period of time, typing with all caps or posting meme responses (text/image).
  • No trolling, including but not limited to, flame incitation, user provocation or false information distribution.
  • No link spamming or signature advertisements for content not specific to Dota 2.
  • No Dota 2 key requests, sell, trade etc.
  • You may not create multiple accounts for any purpose, including ban evasion, unless expressly permitted by a moderator.

  • Please search before posting. One thread per issue. Do not create another thread if there is an existing one already.
  • Before posting anything, make sure you check out all sticky threads (e.g., this). Do not create new threads about closed ones.
  • It is extremely important that you post in correct forum section.

  • Balance discussion only in Misc.
  • All art related (such as hero model) feedbacks go to Art Feedback Forum.
  • All matchmaking feedback should go here: Matchmaking Feedback
  • All report/low priority issues should go here: Commend/Report/Ban Feedback
  • No specific workshop item feedback. These should go to workshop page of that item.
  • When posting in non-bugs section (such as this), use [Bugs], [Discussion] or [Suggestion] prefix in your thread name.



In case you object some action by a moderator, please contact him directly through PM and explain your concerns politely. If you are still unable to resolve the issue, contact an administrator. Do not drag these issues in public.



All rules are meant to augment common sense, please use them when not conflicted with aforementioned policies.
See more
See less

Bloodstone and Zeus' Thundergod Wrath

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Bloodstone and Zeus' Thundergod Wrath

    Just saw this pop up on /r/dota2:



    Zeus ults and both CM and Timbersaw are below the kill threshold, but Timbersaw dies first, bloodstone heal pops off instantly and heals CM so she survives.

    Question: Should this happen this way and can this happen with other AoE/Global spells?

    I'll try to repro it in controlled circumstances later in both Dota2 and WC3 Dota.

  • #2
    yep that is suppose to work that way now
    If you find spelling errors, you are free to take them.

    Comment


    • #3
      More power to the Bloodstone!
      I will mercilessly add to my ignore list anyone that makes an incredibly annoying signature.

      Comment


      • #4
        yep that is suppose to work that way now
        So, not necessary to investigate?

        Might still do some tests when I'm bored, but I'll leave it for now.

        Though I still think it's a rather dodgy mechanic, even if it's parity with WC3 DotA.

        Comment


        • #5
          Correct me if I am wrong but isn't blue, yellow, orange, purple, teal the exact order of your team?
          If you would have swapped Timbersaw's and CM's color would it mean CM would have died?
          That is pretty random. I think there should be a consistent behaviour. Meaning CM would have surely died/lived regardless of the color.

          If someone has time please test it. I might do it tomorrow if noone did it. I don't have time today.

          edit:
          I was wrong, color order is blue, teal, purple, yellow, orange.
          Last edited by GermanViet; 09-16-2013, 04:50 PM.
          James "2GD" Harding's career as a Dota 2 host on Valve events
          * 25.02.16 - † 26.02.16
          Spoiler: 


          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by GermanViet View Post
            Correct me if I am wrong but isn't blue, yellow, orange, purple, teal the exact order of your team?
            If you would have swapped Timbersaw's and CM's color would it mean CM would have died?
            i don´t think so because timber seems lower than cm. cant say more because we dont have a match id to check what happened at that exact moment
            If you find spelling errors, you are free to take them.

            Comment


            • #7
              What do you mean "timber seems lower than cm".

              Do you mean hitpoints? This doesn't tell anything since lina(1603), anti-mage(2293), timbersaw(?), crystal maiden(227/1046 (because of bloodstone)), razor(1176)
              I cannot see a order because of their health.

              I will do testing tomorrow.
              Last edited by GermanViet; 09-16-2013, 04:51 PM.
              James "2GD" Harding's career as a Dota 2 host on Valve events
              * 25.02.16 - † 26.02.16
              Spoiler: 


              Comment


              • #8
                I tested around.

                At start of game however Zeus ulti will hit with fixed order: 1st player (blue), 2nd player(teal), 3rd player(purple), 4th player (yellow), 5th player(orange).
                Using -refresh command and doing zeus ulti again that order will be repeated.

                Later that order is somehow changed (I don't know why and by which criteria. But if no major event happened and you ulti again (with refresher) that changed order will repeat again.)

                Depending on the order your teammate gets to live. If your teammates die after bloodstone holder they get to live (assuming your team are cramped up and low health). If they die before they all die.

                @ On topic:
                So it is pretty much random if CM dies before or after Timbersaw dies and therfore triggers bloodstone.

                I don't have WC3 anymore. Cannot test interaction there.

                -----------------

                Summary:
                Depending on the order of Enemy-Zeus ulti strike your low-healthed teammates (1 with bloodstone) gets to live or die.

                Repro:
                1) 1 teammate with bloodstone
                2) stand near together
                3) both of you should be low health
                4) Zeus casts ulti

                Result:
                There is a reproduceable outcome that both heroes die. But there is also a reproduceable outcome that the non bloodstone holder survives.
                When reproducing the outcome it should be done quickly after. After a while the outcome seems "random".

                Expected Result (in WC3 DotA):
                I haven't tried it out.
                Someone test please. It could be random just like in DotA 2, they all die OR bloodstone always trigger heal effect on teammates before death.
                James "2GD" Harding's career as a Dota 2 host on Valve events
                * 25.02.16 - † 26.02.16
                Spoiler: 


                Comment


                • #9
                  bloodstone heals in the exact same frame the hero dies?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Unless my tests were to short: in Wc3, Bloodstone will ALWAYS rescue your team mates from dying. Thundergods Wrath will hit first, sort of killing the unit (wasn't that 0.405 hp?), and Bloodstone will rescue the unit afterwards (at least the bar was spiking down and up again. Only visible in one try).
                    If you think I've closed or deleted a post unjustified, feel free to PM me and I'll explain it to you/discuss it with you further.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You can't resurrect units that are dead like that.

                      Thundergod's Wrath uses GroupEnumUnitsInRect() with the predefined rectangle bj_mapInitialPlayableArea to find units, and then the lightning is applied by ForGroup(). If there are five units with Bloodstone and 1 HP near each other, one will die and the others will live (assuming one Bloodstone heal would put them above the kill threshold). I can't tell what order the grouping function groups them in, however. To me, it seems to have something to do with position and the units' current orders. Zeus's position has nothing to do with anything, and it doesn't seem to be right-to-left or nearest to the center or anything like that.

                      Some random delay in the actual Chain Lightning might also have something to do with it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        ^No one knows AFAIK... It's seemingly got some sort of order but no one can pinpoint it.

                        Also the dota 2 order may change due to resurrection? But it doesn't really matter. I'll investigate a little tonight
                        Last edited by Wyn-Ryder; 09-17-2013, 09:00 PM.
                        Comprehensive Damage Reduction & Amplifications Dota 2 Guide

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X