Range in Dota2

[Tatcoolx]

I have not found same topics or maybe my i'm bad in search. So, I think that Dota2's Map is ~90% scale of DotA1's Map. Because the night sight range of heroes in Dota2 is 550. DotA1 have 800. So it makes some bugs like casting skills from Fog of War. Some skills: Nova, Shackle Shot, Lightning Bolt, and other skill with long cast range. I have evidences. But i think everybody already know that. Is that problem was announced?

P.S. I have a lot of feedback material but when I posted it in 1 thread the thread was closed after 30 min. (http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=12008)
P.P.S. I refresh that thread very often and the number of views increases each time I press "F5" button. Now I stop it. So, will I get banned?

[Baloroth]

(Note: for what it's worth, this is probably where you should have posted that thread in the first place. Oh, and Omnislash isn't technically an attack as such, it just does physical damage so Windrunner's evasion won't (or shouldn't) dodge it. So there's that.)

On topic: I'm not sure about the scale being smaller. I certainly haven't noticed it. It would be extremely helpful if you could post pics of it, it might have been a rare bug. A replay ID would also be quite helpful.

Fog of War is still bugged in certain ways, that much is certain. Necro units can follow through it. I haven't seen any posts about being able to cast spell into the fog of war, but it certainly seems possible (if you order the attack before they go into it).

[Tatcoolx]

okay thanks for responce, but:
1.) i thought in DotA1 Omnislash damages WR under WR buff). my mistake. Just play DotA1 for check.
2.) U dont get it. Not minimap is smaller but ENTIRE DOTA2 is. for Range: u could just run a game in Dota2, select Hero with range attack of 500 or 550(exm. enchantress, akasha, duzzle), Wait until Night, go for neutral creeps and order Hero to attack any creep for long range. when hero stops and begins to attack the distance within creep and hero is "attack range of hero", notice the distance within creep and Fog Of War behind him and sum that 2 distances.
dota0000.jpg Exm.

[apoptosis]

He's right. Night time sight is much smaller in dota2. I don't know if it's intended though.

[Durub]

okay thanks for responce, but:
[ATTACH]1863[/ATTACH] Exm.

It's actually very near to 700 range, you can check it with dota_display_range. (console)
Night sight for Dazzle is 800 though, so if it's not intended it's something that should be looked at.

[Baloroth]

Hmmm, wow, you are in fact quite right. Night view distances are much smaller in Dota 2 than in 1. Here is Dazzle (800 supposed night view distance) by one of the neutral creep camps at night (NS ult night) in WC3 (hard to see, but he is just barely in range to see the creeps inside the camp):
DazzleWC3Creeps.jpg

And here he is in Dota 2:

dota0009.jpg

Both were taken at the minimum distance he could see the creeps. In Dota 2 he is almost inside the camp, and he can't even see the second creep (there is a second one right behind the first.)

As for Towers, they seem to work weird. In WC3 you can't even get in sight range without them seeing you (I suspect you need to be able to see their midpoint, while their attack range is from their outside edge), while you can in Dota 2.

[Tatcoolx]

Hmmm, wow, you are in fact quite right. Night view distances are much smaller in Dota 2 than in 1. Here is Dazzle (800 supposed night view distance) by one of the neutral creep camps at night (NS ult night) in WC3 (hard to see, but he is just barely in range to see the creeps inside the camp):
[ATTACH]1865[/ATTACH]

And here he is in Dota 2:

[ATTACH]1866[/ATTACH]

Both were taken at the minimum distance he could see the creeps. In Dota 2 he is almost inside the camp, and he can't even see the second creep (there is a second one right behind the first.)

As for Towers, they seem to work weird. In WC3 you can't even get in sight range without them seeing you (I suspect you need to be able to see their midpoint, while their attack range is from their outside edge), while you can in Dota 2.

That's what Im talking about. I want to share the thing that drives me crazy(mentioned in first post): There are some skill that cast range is more than Your Hero's Night Sight Range: Lightning Bolt, Shackleshot, etc. When casted by enemy at your hero from maximum cast range it makes enemy not revealed in Fog of War. U get stuned and damaged but u cant see enemy, just projectile of skill(shackleshot) which flies out of the fog of war.

P.S. I use friend's Steam Account, so I do not always have access to Dota2.

[Shadowflame]

Tatcoolx, thanx for bumping this topic agan, someone recently sad about this problem too. Need fix valve!

[Tatcoolx]

I want to put an end to this problem. For this we must compare the size of the DotA1's map and Dota2's map. For DotA1 (6.04) it is X=14800 and Y=14800. Newer Version a protected from World Edit's Editing. "Dota Template Advanced 2.0" (for 6.72f) has X=15000 and Y=15300. As for Dota2 i not able to some sort of test. Can someone measure the size of Dota2's Map? And after anybody's help we can say how much the maps are different sizes.

[migoq_aki]

I'm glad someone other aswell noticed that. I didn't do such mechanics and in-depth checking , thus i stopped playing 1 a long time ago , but something felt different for me for quite a long time , especially when playing zeus and against zeus , and just walking around at night. Everything seemed like everyone's not seeing as far as they'd be able in 1. But as you say Tatcoolx , we can't check dota 2 map properties. We need a "higher" help ;D

[akaHideinlight]

Don't really care about the size of the map, but vision to vision of units is important.

[Tatcoolx]

Don't really care about the size of the map, but vision to vision of units is important.

If the size of the Dota2's map is smaller than DotA1'smap then we should ask developes to fix it. (it means that all vision and ranges are different)

Perhaps someone knows how to turn the Range indicator? It may be a little helpful. I saw somewhere that you can install an additional indicator of the radius of a specific value

[akaHideinlight]

If the size of the Dota2's map is smaller than DotA1'smap then we should ask developes to fix it. (it means that all vision and ranges are different)

Perhaps someone knows how to turn the Range indicator? It may be a little helpful. I saw somewhere that you can install an additional indicator of the radius of a specific value

Doesn't matter, it's subjective just like gamespeed and camera zoom. Everyone will see and experience it differently. Units however have certain attack ranges, if a hero can't use his full attack range at night, it becomes a significant balance issue for that hero.

// Shows 950 rangeunits, the proximity range to be revealed while smoked, 1000 = lvl4 pudge hook range, 700 = tower range, 1150 = dagger range
alias "+range" "dota_range_display 1150;bind y -range;"
alias "-range" "dota_range_display 0;bind y +range;"

bind "y" "+range"

[Tatcoolx]

OMG! I did not understand it. Why "lvl4 Meat Hook range is 1000"? It must be 1200. Maybe I did not understand at all?

[pglppasarel]

map is smaller in a lot of places in dota2, if u want to make a test, then use same resolutions for dota1 and dota2 when making a screenshot and u will see the difference. hook in dota2 can get in places that u coudn't imagine in dota1, also u can block the ramp near left from roshan with just 2 venowards etc.
facts: map is smaller, fog at night is smaller ( http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...ght=night),fog on ramps is like u are on ground http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=7306 , units are bigger (check #8 post from here http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=9745 ), collision size 2, some trees are 2 tall etc.
"Don't really care about the size of the map" ... size of the map in so many places changes the gameplay completly, the question is u want dota1 gameplay feel or not, and i guess most of the players play dota2 thinking it would be like dota1.