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True Sight from Thundergod's Wrath applies too early?

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  • True Sight from Thundergod's Wrath applies too early?

    Doesn't seem to be instant in WC3.

    Also,

    Gives true sight within 900 range. In game mechanics, the spell provides True Sight on each hero in order of in-game players list. For example, the first player provides True Sight of all other 4 heroes if they are within 900 range, while the third player gives True Sight of 4th, 5th, but not 1st and 2nd players.
    Is this true in WC3?

  • #2
    If it's not instant, it's "as soon as possible" due to the standard vision update delays—the code provides for no delays.

    I have no idea what that quote even means.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by imxtrabored View Post
      If it's not instant, it's "as soon as possible" due to the standard vision update delays—the code provides for no delays.

      I have no idea what that quote even means.
      From what I understand, if you were to have 5 invisible heroes next to each other, instead of not hitting any of them (but revealing them), what instead happens is that 4 of them are hit, as the first reveals the others. The one that's not hit is the one in the earliest player slot (so Blue/Pink in this example)
      It's quite possible that in WC3 the update isn't quick enough to cause this interaction, thus hitting nobody instead of 4.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by imxtrabored View Post
        I have no idea what that quote even means.
        It means:

        1. Create any hero (Antimage) and a TA
        2. Create a Zeus on the enemy team
        3. Put the AM and TA next to each other, and use Meld
        4. Use Thundergod's Wrath
        5. TA will be revealed and damaged, since AM gave truesight around her.

        This is what happens in Dota 2.

        Comment


        • #5
          ehm correct me if i´m wrong now but

          It only reveals her but deals no dmg.

          need to test this one.
          If you find spelling errors, you are free to take them.

          Comment


          • #6
            It does damage her.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Noo View Post
              It does damage her.

              Ah i now understand:
              if player 1 = vision of player 2;3;4;5
              then dmg them

              if player 2= vision of player 3;4;5
              damage them

              but its not like:

              if player 5 = vision of player 1;2;3;4

              dmg them

              because its after the players list
              so it seem like, this is intended to work this way (at least to me) not sure about d1 tho
              If you find spelling errors, you are free to take them.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jan2011 View Post
                so it seem like, this is intended to work this way (at least to me)
                I don't really follow how you got to that conclusion.

                While it's a logical interaction in terms of computing, I wouldn't really say this is a natural conclusion. This basically means that it's better to be Riki on blue/pink than the other slots when vs Zeus, that's just a clunky and weird interaction.

                Someone needs to verify the WC3 mechanics, I imagine due to FoW updates it doesn't occur there, and even if it does I'd personally be for removing this anyhow.

                Comment


                • #9
                  In reality, True Sight is provided much like an "aura" that obeys aura update times. Even though the units are processed in an order (by the way, this order is not in player color order; I actually do not know how the order works due to the ambiguous nature of GroupEnumUnitsInRect()), the True Sight "update time" is too slow for any invisible units to be affected by another's Lightning Bolt Dummy Caster.

                  Actually, if True Sight updated "instantly", then Thundergod's Wrath would affect all invisible Heroes anyways, since:
                  0. A unit [e000] "Lightning Bolter" is defined with the abilities [A04R] "Marker" and [ANtr] "True Sight" by default.
                  1. The unit is created as part of Thundergod's Wrath. Its abilities start working instantly.
                  2. The unit is granted [A05S] "Lightning Bolt", which is the actual skyborne Chain Lightning spell that provides the graphic and the damage.
                  3. The unit is issued an order to cast order string "chainlightning" at the target.
                  4a. If [ANtr] worked instantly, then the unit would be able to "see" the invisible target, and [A05S] would proceed normally.
                  4b. In reality, [ANtr] takes a little bit to update, so the caster fails to cast with the error "Must Explore There".
                  5. The dummy caster is granted [BTLF] Timed Life for three seconds and [Aloc] "Locust". After these three seconds, the 900 range True Sight and 1000 range Flying Vision expire.
                  (6. This dummy caster actually has another three seconds of death time before it stops providing vision altogether. No True Sight exists here, though.)

                  TL;DR: In DotA 1, Thundergod's Wrath cannot strike invisible units revealed only by the same cast no matter what.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Seems a really weird mechanic to add in Dota 2.

                    Comment

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