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spell inconsistencies vs creep-heroes/ancients

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  • spell inconsistencies vs creep-heroes/ancients

    This can be viewed rather as a suggestion for change thread, for the sake of making things simplier with creep-heroes.

    I ran some tests and discovered many inconsistancies with creep-heroes/ancients. This thread focuses on the creep-heroes, which have inconsistant interactions with some spells compared to each other.

    First of all, these are the only units classified as creep-heroes:
    1. Lone Druid's Spirit Bear
    2. Visage's Familiars
    3. Warlock's Golems
    4. Brewmaster's Primal Split Storm/Earth/Fire units

    Current status: Warlock's Golem and the Primal Split spirits are categorized as Creep-Heroes and as Ancient units (ancients like the ones in the neutral creep camps)

    Suggested status: Remove the Ancient categorization from Warlock golems and Primal Split spirits, so they are only categorized as Creep-Heroes, just like familiars and spirit bears.

    How much will this change change?

    It will cause a total of 13 abilities to be able to directly target them and another 6 point/aoe targeted abilities to affect them. These are the following abilities
    1. Axe's Battle Hunger
    2. Bane's Enfeeble
    3. Chen's Test of Faith (nuke)
    4. Doom's Doom
    5. Earth Spirit's Boulder Smash (damage/stun already hits them, but it cant be cast on them directly)
    6. Enchantress' Enchant (it already treats creep-heroes as heroes, so it would slow them. It currently slows Spirit Bears)
    7. Omnislash (since 6.84, it can jump on them, but it cannot be directly cast on them)
    8. Lifestealer's Infest
    9. Morphling's Adaptive Strike
    10. Nature's Prophet's Sprout (ground targeting can trap them, unit targeting cant target ancients for whatever reason)
    11. Silencer's Last Word
    12. Storm Spirit's Electric Vortex
    13. Vengeful Spirit's Nether Swap
    14. Dark Seer's Vacuum
    15. Keeper of the Light's Blinding Light
    16. Pudge's Meat Hook
    17. Shadow Demon's Soul Catcher
    18. Spectre's Desolate
    19. Radiance's Burn Damage

    And will cause Quelling Blade's and Battle Fury's Quell to not work against them.

    Now I ask, would that be too big of a change, or is that change worth the consistancy?

    In my opinion, I doubt it will make warlock or brewmaster bad against most of those heroes. The only "big" spells here are Enfeeble against Warlock golem and Infest, but even those don't seem to be such a big deal.
    Please, just call me buny.

  • #2
    what does a creep hero mean? a creep that can pick and use items and runes?


    • #3
      creep-heroes are treated as heroes by some spells, and as creeps by others. For example, most spells which have a different duration for creeps (eg frostbite lasts 10 secs on non-heroes) lasts the hero duration on these.

      Or other hero-only spells like Shallow Grave or Reaper's Scythe may target those.

      So in short, those units have a mixed status for balance reasons. They aren't supposed to be heroes (obviously, they are just summons), but they also are supposed to be stronger than regular units (e.g. unable to dominate them ever).
      Please, just call me buny.


      • #4
        Giving me the feeling of resistant skin in warcraft 3, except the part that shallow grave and reaper scythe
        (in wcIII resistant skin functioned by making the duration/damage of a spell done to the unit as hero so it last 3 seconds like a hero instead of 5 seconds like normal units, but resistant skin did not make the unit hero, so if available targets are heroes only and not units, then they cannot be target by only hero spells, remmeber in warcraft there is box targetting hero, self, ally, owned units, touren, etc


        • #5
          Yea, it basically is like resistance skin.

          Dota 2 has like 2 kinds of resistance skin, one is just like the one in wc3 (ancients) and the other is that + allow some hero-only stuff on them (creep-heroes).
          Please, just call me buny.