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Is there a reliable consensus on what does and does not use PRD?

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  • Is there a reliable consensus on what does and does not use PRD?

    I spent a couple hours today combing through Liquipedia, Dota 2 Wiki, PlayDotA and these forums trying to find a consensus on what does and does not use PRD, but as this thread's existence probably implies, I didn't find one.

    I found no such mentions of PRD on PlayDotA aside from a forum post from 2009, but even if I had found a clear, exhaustive list, it wouldn't be a reliable source on its own. PlayDotA is a resource for WC3 DotA, not Dota 2.

    These forums aren't a repository of information like a wiki, so I didn't expect to find what I was looking for here, and I did not. Just some threads asking general PRD questions and wondering why Spirit Breaker still stands alone (but seriously why is that lol fuck that cow).

    It shouldn't be surprising that Liquipedia and Dota 2 Wiki disagree on some things, but I was nonetheless disappointed that their PRD lists aren't identical.
    Liquipedia's list includes the crit of Lycan's Wolves, which is excluded from Dota 2 Wiki's list; however, each wiki's crit page says that all chance-based crits use PRD.
    Skull Basher and Abyssal Blade are in Liquipedia's PRD list but are absent from Dota 2 Wiki's. Liquipedia's stun page says that all bashes use PRD (which is contradicted by Spirit Breaker's exclusion from its PRD list), while Dota 2 Wiki's bash page merely implies that all bashes but Spirit Breaker's (he's excluded from Dota 2 Wiki's PRD list) use PRD by noting that Greater Bash does not use PRD in its description.
    Javelin and Silver Edge are in Dota 2 Wiki's PRD list but are absent from Liquipedia's.
    Based on this information, my assumption is that all chance-based crits and bashes (excluding Spirit Breaker's) use PRD. As Javelin builds into Monkey King Bar and Skull Basher, which both use PRD (according to both Liquipedia and Dota 2 Wiki), I assume its Pierce also uses PRD.

    But that's hardly what I'd call a reliable consensus. Does anyone else know better? *cough*bu3ny*cough*
    Last edited by acetone15; 09-05-2015, 01:59 PM.
    I wonder what awaits me at the end of everything.

  • #2
    All critical strikes use prd, this is for certain. As for bashes, all normal bashes use it as well. Now this is the tricky part. The bash of Skull Basher and Abyssal Blade are not normal. In DotA1, they used to be normal and thus used to use PRD. But since its cooldown was added, it got reworked and uses custom codes. Since then they no longer are using PRD. However, I do not know if they got changed to PRD in Dota2 and testing this takes quite a long time. You make a unit attack another unit a LOT of times and count the number of attacks between each bash. If the number of attacks are in avarage between 3-6, it should be prd. If you have insane no-bash streaks like 15 multiple times and sometimes bash on every hit, it should be rng. And since Bash has a cooldown, you have to like wait 2 seconds after each bash procs, to not potentially lose a proc during the cooldown.


    Also your logic "this builds into that, so it should be the same" is not really good. Javelin and MKB are 2 independent items. MKB does use PRD, but I'm not sure about Javelin. Would need testing, too.

    And yes, Bara's Greater Bash does not use PRD for the same reason why Basher is not PRD in DotA1. The bash is not from Warcraft 3 ladder, it is self-coded and its non-PRD nature carried over to DotA1. Also, this is mainly the reason why it has a cooldown in the first place. True RNG can cause insane bash streaks (I'm pretty sure you saw Baras making 5 bashes in a row). The cooldown somehow prevents that (mainly at high attack speed).
    Please, just call me buny.

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    • #3
      All critical strikes use prd, this is for certain. As for bashes, all normal bashes use it as well.
      Is this information available anywhere official, like an old Dota 2 blog or a deeply buried dev forum post, or is it based on your (or another user's) tests in Dota 2?

      Also your logic "this builds into that, so it should be the same" is not really good.
      Yes, I agree.

      Something else I wondered about is that if Basher and Abyssal do use PRD, do their PRD counters increment while they're on cooldown? Both wikis suggest otherwise when they say that the chance won't increase when a proc can't occur (like a crit-wielder attacking a tower), but you said that their bashes aren't normal. So.....?
      I wonder what awaits me at the end of everything.

      Comment


      • #4
        I don't know, I haven't tested those things really. But I'd assume they did use PRD for crits/bashes to mirror DotA1 behavior.
        Please, just call me buny.

        Comment


        • #5
          I equipped Alchemist with a Javelin such that he had max attack speed and had him swing away for about 4 minutes (2 separate 2-minute tests).

          xflrR92.png

          Looks like true random.
          I wonder what awaits me at the end of everything.

          Comment


          • #6
            I tested Javelin, Silver Edge, Skull Basher and Abyssal Blade in Reborn. Of these 4 items, it seems that only Javelin doesn't use PRD.

            It's also clear that the PRD counters for Skull Basher and Abyssal Blade don't increment while Bash is on cooldown, as the max N value was passed in 6 of the 10 tests in which I counted attacks while Bash was on cooldown.
            Last edited by acetone15; 09-06-2015, 05:52 PM.
            I wonder what awaits me at the end of everything.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by acetone15 View Post

              It's also clear that the PRD counters for Skull Basher and Abyssal Blade don't increment while Bash is on cooldown, as the max N value was passed in 6 of the 10 tests in which I counted attacks while Bash was on cooldown.
              OMG this is what I was looking for
              so axe counter helix and moemnt of courage will also not increment in the cd of the ability right?

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