Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules

  • No flaming or derogatory remarks, directly or through insinuation.
  • No discussion, sharing or referencing illegal software such as hacks, keygen, cracks and pirated software.
  • No offensive contents, including but not limited to, racism, gore or pornography.
  • No excessive spam/meme, i.e. copious one liners in a short period of time, typing with all caps or posting meme responses (text/image).
  • No trolling, including but not limited to, flame incitation, user provocation or false information distribution.
  • No link spamming or signature advertisements for content not specific to Dota 2.
  • No Dota 2 key requests, sell, trade etc.
  • You may not create multiple accounts for any purpose, including ban evasion, unless expressly permitted by a moderator.

  • Please search before posting. One thread per issue. Do not create another thread if there is an existing one already.
  • Before posting anything, make sure you check out all sticky threads (e.g., this). Do not create new threads about closed ones.
  • It is extremely important that you post in correct forum section.

  • Balance discussion only in Misc.
  • All art related (such as hero model) feedbacks go to Art Feedback Forum.
  • All matchmaking feedback should go here: Matchmaking Feedback
  • All report/low priority issues should go here: Commend/Report/Ban Feedback
  • No specific workshop item feedback. These should go to workshop page of that item.
  • When posting in non-bugs section (such as this), use [Bugs], [Discussion] or [Suggestion] prefix in your thread name.



In case you object some action by a moderator, please contact him directly through PM and explain your concerns politely. If you are still unable to resolve the issue, contact an administrator. Do not drag these issues in public.



All rules are meant to augment common sense, please use them when not conflicted with aforementioned policies.
See more
See less

Reaper's Scythe interaction

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Reaper's Scythe interaction

    just sharing something i found out today :

    DOTA 2 : Reaper's Scythe level 3 (Scepter)+ Ethereal Blade = cannot kill unit with 1 hp under Shallow Grave buff
    DotA : Reaper's Scythe level 3 (Scepter)+ Ethereal Blade = can kill unit with 1 hp under Shallow Grave buff

    should we let it or what? and what about Culling Blade interaction with Shallow Grave? leave it as it is?
    Testing bugs between DOTA 2 and DotA - No Test Client
    Common Gameplay Bugs list
    Intended Gameplay Fix list
    Times quoted: OVER NINE THOUSAND

    Originally posted by GothicCream
    Almost of every pokemon game that have online match. 75% of player are using full legendary pokemon team with all of them being sent out from master ball. And they got pawn by Magikarp.

  • #2
    Culling Blade dispells everything before dealing damage, including Shallow Grave, so that's working as intended.

    I would imagine the reason Reaper's + Ethereal in Dota1 will kill someone on 1 HP is because Shallow Grave will not save someone who takes over 100%(? Or something above 100%) of their HP in a single blow due to the way Shallow Grave is manifested in the War3 Map Editor.

    I would say it's a case of engine limitations in Dota causing a very specific circumstance not to function properly, since Reaper's cannot normally kill through Shallow Grave.

    Comment


    • #3
      actually i know it clearly that DotA's interaction is caused by engine limitation, but since you remind me Culling Blade dispell buff first, i take this one as an engine fix then. but difference is still difference, the behaviour still clearly shows difference, should i report it? (actually i lean towards no.. but since there IS a difference...)
      Testing bugs between DOTA 2 and DotA - No Test Client
      Common Gameplay Bugs list
      Intended Gameplay Fix list
      Times quoted: OVER NINE THOUSAND

      Originally posted by GothicCream
      Almost of every pokemon game that have online match. 75% of player are using full legendary pokemon team with all of them being sent out from master ball. And they got pawn by Magikarp.

      Comment


      • #4
        Don't report it.

        The Shallow Grave/Borrowed Time unkillable thing had to be a huge workaround in DotA. It was just logical to make them work as they should.

        Comment


        • #5
          DotA's damage blocking system manipulated current health instead of temporarily increasing a unit's max health which is why it was limited in this way.

          Also AFAIK Culling Blade didn't actually remove the Shallow Grave effect because the buff didn't do anything, it was just there to tell you the unit had Shallow Grave. The effect was triggered. So if, for example, you Culled Leoric with Shallow Grave on him, he'd reincarnate and still not be able to drop under 1 HP for the remainder of what would've been Shallow Grave's duration. The more you know.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SlyGoat View Post
            DotA's damage blocking system manipulated current health instead of temporarily increasing a unit's max health which is why it was limited in this way.

            Also AFAIK Culling Blade didn't actually remove the Shallow Grave effect because the buff didn't do anything, it was just there to tell you the unit had Shallow Grave. The effect was triggered. So if, for example, you Culled Leoric with Shallow Grave on him, he'd reincarnate and still not be able to drop under 1 HP for the remainder of what would've been Shallow Grave's duration. The more you know.
            It removes every status buff, only because of ethereal form from Ghost scepter, Ethereal Blade and Decrepify. Same goes for Ice Blast. Ethereal form prevented the killing blow. Yes, the status buff is only for cosmetics. It used to not have it a couple of versions ago.
            Please, just call me buny.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by BLABLAFU View Post
              Don't report it.

              The Shallow Grave/Borrowed Time unkillable thing had to be a huge workaround in DotA. It was just logical to make them work as they should.
              It was not a huge workaround and it is fixable in DotA.

              Comment


              • #8
                i'm kinda confused, a little time of thinking proves that the triggered heal itself which is poorly coded (imo), so should report it or not?
                Testing bugs between DOTA 2 and DotA - No Test Client
                Common Gameplay Bugs list
                Intended Gameplay Fix list
                Times quoted: OVER NINE THOUSAND

                Originally posted by GothicCream
                Almost of every pokemon game that have online match. 75% of player are using full legendary pokemon team with all of them being sent out from master ball. And they got pawn by Magikarp.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I don't think you should report it.

                  Putting aside any possible engine limitations or bad code, reaper's scythe still needs rare certain conditions to kill a unit that has shallow grave, right? Compared to culling blade, which will always kill no matter what, as long as the target is below the threshold, it seems like how scythe is working now is how it was always meant to work.
                  Always read and follow the forum rules. If you need help from a moderator, use the report button ()
                  Before posting new bugs:
                  -Check the Known Bugs List and search the forum for an existing report.
                  -Make sure its a bug (test in WC3 Dota, visit playdota guides and adv. mech, etc). If you're still not sure, post in Mechanics and Gameplay Bug Brainstorming instead.
                  -Read the Bug Posting Guidelines on how to report a bug properly.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Shamanics View Post
                    It was not a huge workaround and it is fixable in DotA.
                    It wasn't fixable with the way DotA did damage blocking, though. I'm not sure what the code for damage blocking looks like, but I assume it would've been a pain to rework just for this one issue. The most accurate way to prevent all damage is to use an ability that increases a unit's max health by an obscenely large amount temporarily rather than what DotA did which was to heal back the damage (or heal both before and after for some abilities).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      just check if that unit has the variable 'Shallow Grave = on', then Reaper's Scythe damage is set to not exceed the target's max HP, it isn't that hard considering the damage count is just entirely triggered (somewhere along Damage=(Max HP-Current HP)*1.1, just set Damage equal to Max HP-1 or whatever if Damage is greater than target's Max HP), hardcoded damage are the ones that become problem (lvl 3 Finger of Death to lvl 1 Heroes are fatal), you don't really need to increase the target HP at all, it isn't that hard to prevent units dying under the Reaper's Scythe (agha)+Ethereal State

                      still need some feedback, i personally think this is viable strategy, still not account Null Aura, Ancient Rune and Veil of Discord, but then again everything is welcomed
                      Testing bugs between DOTA 2 and DotA - No Test Client
                      Common Gameplay Bugs list
                      Intended Gameplay Fix list
                      Times quoted: OVER NINE THOUSAND

                      Originally posted by GothicCream
                      Almost of every pokemon game that have online match. 75% of player are using full legendary pokemon team with all of them being sent out from master ball. And they got pawn by Magikarp.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by chukky-jr View Post
                        just check if that unit has the variable 'Shallow Grave = on', then Reaper's Scythe damage is set to not exceed the target's max HP, it isn't that hard considering the damage count is just entirely triggered (somewhere along Damage=(Max HP-Current HP)*1.1, just set Damage equal to Max HP-1 or whatever if Damage is greater than target's Max HP), hardcoded damage are the ones that become problem (lvl 3 Finger of Death to lvl 1 Heroes are fatal), you don't really need to increase the target HP at all, it isn't that hard to prevent units dying under the Reaper's Scythe (agha)+Ethereal State

                        still need some feedback, i personally think this is viable strategy, still not account Null Aura, Ancient Rune and Veil of Discord, but then again everything is welcomed
                        Yes, it could have been fixed in DotA if Icefrog wanted to, but the sheer amount of coding involved in order to fix a fringe exception that occurs in maybe 1 out of a million games (Shallow Grave + Necro + Scepter + magic damage amp + extremely low health hero) simply isn't worth it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Baloroth View Post
                          Yes, it could have been fixed in DotA if Icefrog wanted to, but the sheer amount of coding involved in order to fix a fringe exception that occurs in maybe 1 out of a million games (Shallow Grave + Necro + Scepter + magic damage amp + extremely low health hero) simply isn't worth it.
                          sheer amount of coding? there is no such sheer amount of coding in that interaction. The one that needed to be rewroten is the Reaper's Scythe damage function, that is all. like i said just check if the Damage is bigger than the target's Max HP, if yes then set the damage to Max HP-1, considering Shallow Grave's the only thing that prevent someone dying. it's just 2 line of work, Shallow Grave buff, and new damage function.

                          just reminding, IceFrog somehow coded it specifically to interact with Linken, so it is kinda easy to do this too
                          Last edited by chukky-jr; 02-25-2012, 09:12 PM.
                          Testing bugs between DOTA 2 and DotA - No Test Client
                          Common Gameplay Bugs list
                          Intended Gameplay Fix list
                          Times quoted: OVER NINE THOUSAND

                          Originally posted by GothicCream
                          Almost of every pokemon game that have online match. 75% of player are using full legendary pokemon team with all of them being sent out from master ball. And they got pawn by Magikarp.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by chukky-jr View Post
                            sheer amount of coding? there is no such sheer amount of coding in that interaction. The one that needed to be rewroten is the Reaper's Scythe damage function, that is all. like i said just check if the Damage is bigger than the target's Max HP, if yes then set the damage to Max HP-1, considering Shallow Grave's the only thing that prevent someone dying. it's just 2 line of work, Shallow Grave buff, and new damage function.

                            just reminding, IceFrog somehow coded it specifically to interact with Linken, so it is kinda easy to do this too
                            Whether its easy or difficult to code is relative and we dont really know the reasons why Icefrog did not do this. Thats why I'm more inclined to look at its gameplay implications.

                            As baloroth mentioned, this concerns an extremely rare scenario. In fact, its so rare, even if you had the right hero and items, it would still be very unlikely this interaction would happen, and thats also why I dont consider this balance discussion.

                            Nothing about reaper's scythe implies that it guarantees a kill, in fact its often used to stun and damage rather than kill. It at least appears to have some other utility than 'getting kills'. Its different from culling blade, where as long as you meet its requirements, it will definitely kill without any exception, under any circumstances. Even Dota 2 puck's controversial 'avoid all' autocast phaseshift doesnt protect against culling blade. In comparison, Reaper's scythe shouldnt go through shallow grave under any circumstances.
                            Always read and follow the forum rules. If you need help from a moderator, use the report button ()
                            Before posting new bugs:
                            -Check the Known Bugs List and search the forum for an existing report.
                            -Make sure its a bug (test in WC3 Dota, visit playdota guides and adv. mech, etc). If you're still not sure, post in Mechanics and Gameplay Bug Brainstorming instead.
                            -Read the Bug Posting Guidelines on how to report a bug properly.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DLRevan View Post
                              Nothing about reaper's scythe implies that it guarantees a kill
                              i guess i missed this one, thx for the great feedback guys
                              Testing bugs between DOTA 2 and DotA - No Test Client
                              Common Gameplay Bugs list
                              Intended Gameplay Fix list
                              Times quoted: OVER NINE THOUSAND

                              Originally posted by GothicCream
                              Almost of every pokemon game that have online match. 75% of player are using full legendary pokemon team with all of them being sent out from master ball. And they got pawn by Magikarp.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X