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Manta with Bash

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  • #16
    Originally posted by xeno2wad View Post
    Was it? or is the site out of date? (http://www.playdota.com/mechanics/illusions)

    "Bash on Illusions

    Illusions may proc the skill Bash, however they will never deal any bonus damage, also the stun they place is "fake" because despite the animation the target can still move, also if another bash hits the unit while in this "Fake bash" state it will only prolong the fake buff, this is also true the opposite way, if a real unit bashes a target and then the illusion "fake" bashes the real bash will be prolonged."
    Ok, so that explains the dota 1 state. And what about dota 2? Is this bug of wc3 engine is in dota 2 now too?
    It's rather non logic to make manta style, so your illusions could use orb affects from your items, but for some unknown reason not for normal bash =/

    Comment


    • #17
      As someone has highlighted, if an illusion doesnt "fake bash", it could be very apparant to the opposing team which is the real hero amongst illusions.
      It is also a matter of game balance, because I remember people specifically buying Manta because of the "fake bashing prolonging real bash duration" mechanic.

      Chairraider, as a Core Tester, could you highlight this to the developer team and ask them what is their perspective on this issue?

      I personally would think that this "quirky mechanic" could do a makeover, which is to say, "fake bash prolongs real bash", but "real bash will take precedence over fake bash and will not prolong a fake bash", meaning its a slight buff and legitimize the mechanic.
      He's the hero this community deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt his identity, because he can take it, because he's not our hero. He's a silent buffer, a watchful nerfer. An IceFrog.

      My Speedtest Result

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Shadowflame View Post
        It's rather non logic to make manta style, so your illusions could use orb affects from your items, but for some unknown reason not for normal bash =/
        Illusions only get one orb which is melee feedback. Every other orb has no or a purely visual effect. (Okay, crits work but a crit is not an orb.)

        Originally posted by d.phoenixxx View Post
        I personally would think that this "quirky mechanic" could do a makeover, which is to say, "fake bash prolongs real bash", but "real bash will take precedence over fake bash and will not prolong a fake bash", meaning its a slight buff and legitimize the mechanic.
        I don't think this will get implemented since it would make perma-bashes possible with cranium basher (which was the only reason why it was recoded: to insert the cooldown on bash).
        Last edited by apoptosis; 03-29-2012, 07:59 AM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by apoptosis View Post
          I don't think this will get implemented since it would make perma-bashes possible with cranium basher (which was the only reason why it was recoded: to insert the cooldown on bash).
          Its rather hard to permabash dring teamgights when your illusions get killed in 2 sec. Even during ganks it should be bkb+manta+basher+pt which is rather expensive gear so, not much of a problem i think. or at least make illusions real bash with cooldown like 3 or 2 seconds

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Shadowflame View Post
            Its rather hard to permabash dring teamgights when your illusions get killed in 2 sec. Even during ganks it should be bkb+manta+basher+pt which is rather expensive gear so, not much of a problem i think. or at least make illusions real bash with cooldown like 3 or 2 seconds
            You dont watch much of Anti-Mage in pub and competitive games, do you?

            Literally every fat Anti-Mage goes those items, which is about 30% of the games AM is ever in, so yes, they are prominent in games.
            He's the hero this community deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt his identity, because he can take it, because he's not our hero. He's a silent buffer, a watchful nerfer. An IceFrog.

            My Speedtest Result

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by d.phoenixxx View Post
              You dont watch much of Anti-Mage in pub and competitive games, do you?

              Literally every fat Anti-Mage goes those items, which is about 30% of the games AM is ever in, so yes, they are prominent in games.
              So what? Let's then disable bash on illusions because one hero from whole pack of 109 heroes when freefarmed for 30 minutes kills whole team yeah? Oh, may be 3 heroes. And what part of "make illusions real bash with cooldown like 3 or 2 seconds" you didn't get?

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Shadowflame View Post
                So what? Let's then disable bash on illusions because one hero from whole pack of 109 heroes when freefarmed for 30 minutes kills whole team yeah? Oh, may be 3 heroes. And what part of "make illusions real bash with cooldown like 3 or 2 seconds" you didn't get?
                I was responding to this part:
                Originally posted by Shadowflame View Post
                Its rather hard to permabash dring teamgights when your illusions get killed in 2 sec. Even during ganks it should be bkb+manta+basher+pt which is rather expensive gear so, not much of a problem i think.
                You mind losing that attitude?
                Games do go long in pubs and competitive scenes at times, and it is not uncommon to see AM with those items.
                So yeah, I was disputing your claim that it is "not much of a problem".
                It also does not matter how many heroes this problem affects. Morphling Replicate illusion giving the wrong hero the kill is a bug that only affects the game when Morphling is the game, it obviously needs fixing. Just because its a small problem does not mean it is "not much of a problem".
                U MAD BRO?
                Last edited by d.phoenixxx; 03-29-2012, 12:44 PM.
                He's the hero this community deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt his identity, because he can take it, because he's not our hero. He's a silent buffer, a watchful nerfer. An IceFrog.

                My Speedtest Result

                Comment


                • #23
                  Enough with the bickering.

                  What should be discussed here is when you are using a hero and items that allow fake bashing, should this mechanic be retained? Does it feel right or wrong?

                  It has nothing to do with how often this may be encountered in the game.
                  Always read and follow the forum rules. If you need help from a moderator, use the report button ()
                  Before posting new bugs:
                  -Check the Known Bugs List and search the forum for an existing report.
                  -Make sure its a bug (test in WC3 Dota, visit playdota guides and adv. mech, etc). If you're still not sure, post in Mechanics and Gameplay Bug Brainstorming instead.
                  -Read the Bug Posting Guidelines on how to report a bug properly.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I feel it's wrong because of the prolonging of the fake bash by a normal bash which screws up a bash ability (since with manta there are 2 illusions to 1 hero which gives double chance to fake bash).

                    If there is only the visual on the target without the prolonging bullshit I'm all for it.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Think of the drama when PL enters the fray!

                      AM is going to taste his own medicine when HIS mana is burnt away for a change.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Also, since ppl on these forums seem to have the mechanics knowledge of a cat, i'm just going to clear something up.

                        SKULL BASHER/CRANIUM BASHER DOES NOT LET ILLUSIONS BASH, EVER. IT IS TRIGGERED AND SPECEFICALLY MADE TO NOT WORK ON ILLUSIONS IN EVERY SINGLE FORM WHATSOEVER SO STOP ARGUING ABOUT THINGS YOU HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT.

                        As for hardcoded bashes such as void and slardar, I guess it's up for debate. However, personally, I prefer the way that it is now where they cant bash.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Yeah, it feels wrong. I described my solution to this in both my previous posts: when hero have bash and it procs - it should work as always as intended. When hero with illusions have bash and it procs on one illusion then bash on that illusion can't proc for next 3 seconds. You bashed - 1.4 sec stun, illusion stuned +1.4, then illusion can't bash for 3 seconds.
                          Any opinions on that? May be someone can see drawbacks here? Cause I don't and it's easy to implement.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Rice View Post
                            Also, since ppl on these forums seem to have the mechanics knowledge of a cat, i'm just going to clear something up.

                            SKULL BASHER/CRANIUM BASHER DOES NOT LET ILLUSIONS BASH, EVER. IT IS TRIGGERED AND SPECEFICALLY MADE TO NOT WORK ON ILLUSIONS IN EVERY SINGLE FORM WHATSOEVER SO STOP ARGUING ABOUT THINGS YOU HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT.

                            As for hardcoded bashes such as void and slardar, I guess it's up for debate. However, personally, I prefer the way that it is now where they cant bash.
                            it does works for illusion with MKB right? i haven't checked this details yet
                            Testing bugs between DOTA 2 and DotA - No Test Client
                            Common Gameplay Bugs list
                            Intended Gameplay Fix list
                            Times quoted: OVER NINE THOUSAND

                            Originally posted by GothicCream
                            Almost of every pokemon game that have online match. 75% of player are using full legendary pokemon team with all of them being sent out from master ball. And they got pawn by Magikarp.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Shadowflame View Post
                              Yeah, it feels wrong. I described my solution to this in both my previous posts: when hero have bash and it procs - it should work as always as intended. When hero with illusions have bash and it procs on one illusion then bash on that illusion can't proc for next 3 seconds. You bashed - 1.4 sec stun, illusion stuned +1.4, then illusion can't bash for 3 seconds.
                              Any opinions on that? May be someone can see drawbacks here? Cause I don't and it's easy to implement.
                              Yes, I do see a problem. Another illusion can stun for another 1.4 seconds which would give 1.4+1.4+1.4=4.2 seconds stun with 3 seconds cooldown.

                              Originally posted by chukky-jr View Post
                              it does works for illusion with MKB right? i haven't checked this details yet
                              No, since illusions cant bash!? And fake bash /= bash.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by apoptosis View Post
                                No, since illusions cant bash!? And fake bash /= bash.
                                i was asking about the fake bash, just like my previous post on page 2 about MKB, should've been clearer though

                                then again, why don't it is half-implemented? :

                                illusions with fake bashes will prolongs real bashes
                                real bashes will override fake bashes
                                Testing bugs between DOTA 2 and DotA - No Test Client
                                Common Gameplay Bugs list
                                Intended Gameplay Fix list
                                Times quoted: OVER NINE THOUSAND

                                Originally posted by GothicCream
                                Almost of every pokemon game that have online match. 75% of player are using full legendary pokemon team with all of them being sent out from master ball. And they got pawn by Magikarp.

                                Comment

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