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Linken's Sphere and no-targeting/ground targeting Skills.

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  • #46
    Hm, nice. But I don't know better or worse it.

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    • #47
      IMO whatever behavior Linkens has is up to IceFrog and Valve, but I strongly feel that in the end whatever it is should be consistent. Anything that's blocked should be fully blocked, and no single thing should be specifically exempt unless it's consistent with all similar abilities. For example, if casting Omnislash on a target with Linkens doesn't fizzle the Omnislash, it shouldn't fizzle Chain Frost, Nature's Wrath, etc. either. If hitting a target with Impale when you didn't directly target them is blocked, so should be Burrow Strike, Fissure, etc.

      Orb effects were already made completely consistent, totally abandoning the convoluted priorities of WC3. Whether there was much debate before that was decided on or whether it just seemed like a no-brainer, it should be the same for spell block.

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      • #48
        lmao what? I just, didn't get it - so if enemy team has one hero with linken's and sven uses his aoe stun when they stand together - they will not get stanned cause of that player under aoe zone??? Icefrog and team, what are you guys smoking?) And why we should brainstorm such topics, after the change, why not to ask community before the change hm?? In russia we say, "seven times make measure, one time cut" or "look before you leap" in english analogue.
        At least you should made a voting before the change!
        Against! It was a feature of such spells like burrowstrike, feature, not a bug

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        • #49
          1 - The only one that really know if this was an intended feature or a bug is the developers.
          2 - I agree 100% with Sly. Whatever behavior Linkens will have, it should be completely consistent.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by DarknessMonk View Post
            1 - The only one that really know if this was an intended feature or a bug is the developers.
            Have you even played first dota? How this could be a bug if bkb blocks aoe skills when they collide with heroes? If icefrog wanted to function linken's sphere like this before - he could add this effect of bkb to linken's long time ago. But he didn't (for some clever reason, at first at least)=>thus making it a feature to stun anemies clicking on the ground.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Shadowflame View Post
              Have you even played first dota? How this could be a bug if bkb blocks aoe skills when they collide with heroes? If icefrog wanted to function linken's sphere like this before - he could add this effect of bkb to linken's long time ago. But he didn't (for some clever reason, at first at least)=>thus making it a feature to stun anemies clicking on the ground.
              ??? That makes no sense. You're immune to all magic with BKB active. It's not even remotely similar to Linken's single spell block.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by SlyGoat View Post
                ??? That makes no sense. You're immune to all magic with BKB active. It's not even remotely similar to Linken's single spell block.
                It's very kind of you to explain on dev's forum to a player with three year dota experince how bkb works. Now try to read this one post carefully:
                Linken's sphere now blocks burrowstrike when it used on the ground => making it simillar to BKB for that one burrowstrike(before the change it wouldn't be blocked).
                Can't you imagine the situation when two enemies stand in line and you want to stun them both with impale - to stun them both you need to target ground and before it would work, but now it won't cause one of the players have linken's sphere.
                Last edited by Shadowflame; 03-30-2012, 03:34 AM.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Shadowflame View Post
                  It's very kind of you to explain on dev's forum to a player with three year dota experince how bkb works. Now try to read this one post carefully:
                  Linken's sphere now blocks burrowstrike when it used on the ground => making it simillar to BKB for that one burrowstrike(before the change it wouldn't be blocked).
                  Can't you imagine the situation when two enemies stand in line and you want to stun them both with impale - to stun them both you need to target ground and before it would work, but now it won't cause one of the players have linken's sphere.
                  I haven't observed burrowstrike/impale fizzling after hitting someone with linkens, as far as I know it will still stun and damage anyone else in the area.

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                  • #54
                    I think it should be heavily altered to remove inconsistencies. At the moment its abit of a mess and the changes have just swapped one set of problems for another imo.

                    This would be my linkens:

                    Blocks a single target spell every 20 seconds

                    And by single target i mean explicitally only single target, ie:
                    -lions line stun would not be blocked (it wouldn't matter if you targetted the hero or not becuase it is an aoe spell at heart)
                    -polymorph/finger/mana drain would all be blocked
                    -burrowstrike would not be blocked (no matter where the player targets)

                    I would then modify the price of the recipe to balance if it is deemed over or underpowered.



                    Some people would argue that this reduces the games "depth" or percieved skill ceiling but i would argue that if a player has the skill level and reasoning ability to understand the item he should not have to refer to a giant list on a forum to understand an item. It should all be ingame and it should be logical, there is no skill in checking forums.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Linken's sphere now blocks burrowstrike when it used on the ground => making it simillar to BKB for that one burrowstrike(before the change it wouldn't be blocked).
                      Can't you imagine the situation when two enemies stand in line and you want to stun them both with impale - to stun them both you need to target ground and before it would work, but now it won't cause one of the players have linken's sphere.
                      Consistency of mechanics dictates that Linken's should operate the same whether you click directly on a hero or slightly past the hero. The reason it didn't in WC3 was because it was WC3, with the limitations that implies. This is DOTA 2: Valve can do whatever they want, and if a spell is blocked when cast with the cursor over that hero, it makes no sense that it should be blocked simply because the caster clicked a slightly different point.

                      Useless mechanics do not add skill to a game, they just add useless, unintended complexity.

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                      • #56
                        i confirm , fissure got blocked all the time too
                        >Click< here to make a clicking sound.

                        Overall average (K+A)/D and K/D tracker, and a MMR solution?

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by VeRychard View Post
                          i confirm , fissure got blocked all the time too
                          you confirm what? it's an intended change

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Baloroth View Post
                            Consistency of mechanics dictates that Linken's should operate the same whether you click directly on a hero or slightly past the hero. The reason it didn't in WC3 was because it was WC3, with the limitations that implies. This is DOTA 2: Valve can do whatever they want, and if a spell is blocked when cast with the cursor over that hero, it makes no sense that it should be blocked simply because the caster clicked a slightly different point.

                            Useless mechanics do not add skill to a game, they just add useless, unintended complexity.
                            Its not a limitation, linkens can be made to block (almost) anything in the regular wc3 now. Although making the item work simpler is a valid point.
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                            • #59
                              My Opinion:
                              Linken's should not block AoE skills. With Fissure/Impale I never really considered clicking the skill on a hero to be targeting the hero themselves, i see it as targeting the ground underneath the hero.
                              Like with Tiny's Avalanche, I'm not targeting a person in the center of the circle, I'm targeting the ground under and around them.
                              With Burrowstrike I consider clicking somewhere as the target of your "blink" while stunning anything along the way.
                              Last edited by Wyvrex; 05-03-2012, 12:25 PM.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by DLRevan View Post
                                Its not a limitation, linkens can be made to block (almost) anything in the regular wc3 now. Although making the item work simpler is a valid point.
                                Really? My understanding based on my reading of the Adv. Mech forums is that Linken's itself is a hardcoded spell, and the interactions with other hardcoded spells cannot be changed without recoding all of them (so yes, technically possible for most spells, but not necessarily practically feasible). Not 100% sure all spells could even be coded properly with triggers (Doom especially). The fact that Icefrog said the Dota 2 change was intended without changing it in DotA leads me to suspect he can't, or (again) it wouldn't be worth the effort (technically, almost anything can be done in WC3, but the effort involved can become massive for certain mechanics).

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