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stout shield on tide

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  • stout shield on tide

    Hello guys,
    maybe it has been already answered or sth, but I would like to see clear explanation of it.
    Got 2 situations, so please.

    1.) Saw on International 2 - Tidehunter buys Stout Shield - "THAT SHELL + STOUT SHIELD SAVED HIS LIFE!!!" I heared..(international live specating with broadcasting)
    My Question is: His passive shield does not stack with other dmg block items. So Lets say. Stout Shield is 60% chance to block 20 dmg. Lets say we have Kraken on lvl 1 = 7 dmg blocked. So it means. When I get attacked by an enemy hero. Lets say his dmg is 50 and I have 0 armor. So after his hit I get 43 dmg ALWAYS cause of Shell and I have 60% chance to get only 23 dmg if stout is successful? I just want to be clear here. Then I dont underestand why there is IT DOES NOT STACK - mb after a hit, First chance is for stout shield, when stout works, it does -20 dmg and Shell will not work and IF Stout shield fails, I get -7dmg from Shell?
    Please help me in here.
    1.1) And one more thing to add. If I buy 2x stout shield, how does the percentual chance stacks exactly? I know it worked somehow in W3dota but I do not remember how and maybe It could change in Dota2 slightly.

    2.) Lets say we have Void. Passive Stun lvl 1 10%, we buy Skull Basher with 25%. I remember there was a problem with stacking, mb something like "You can not buy basher when you have passive bash ability) - So How does it work? Does it work like: After your hit you have chance for Item Stun, if successful it does (item) stun if not, it tries chance for Passive stun? Or If you buy basher you gonna have only chance for item stun or how is that.

    Thx very much for clear explanation.
    Please, try to answer all points, I would be very grateful.

    Kubusta

  • #2
    In DotA2, the highest damage block that triggers will block (vanguard, stout, kraken).

    Skull basher passive is completely disabled on heroes with bash.

    Comment


    • #3
      1. Kraken Shell works on every hit, except when Stout Shield proc. When you have Shell on lvl 3 and 4 your Stout Shield is worthless since the block from Shell is 21/28 and that's always higher then 20 from Stout S.

      1.1. 60% for the first one to proc; if it doesn't, then there is 60% for other to proc. --> 60% + (40% * 60%) = 0,6 + (0,4 * 0,6) = 0,84 = 84% for proc.

      2. Basher doesn't work on Void at all. (not sure about this one so someone correct me if I'm wrong)

      Comment


      • #4
        dual stout shields were a pub build in wc3 dota.
        you had 60% + 60 % - 60%*60% (when both shields trigger) damageblock.

        wouldnt hurt to doublecheck if kraken and stout do in fact not stack in dota 2.
        Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by blash365 View Post
          dual stout shields were a pub build in wc3 dota.
          you had 60% + 60 % - 60%*60% (when both shields trigger) damageblock.

          wouldnt hurt to doublecheck if kraken and stout do in fact not stack in dota 2.
          You mean you had (1 - (1 - 0.6)^2) = 0.84 = 84% chance? And in DotA 1 it was based on when they were acquired, not which was maximum, but I believe it works the same way as crit now, where the maximum damage block is taken if both proc (where kraken shell has 100% chance - level 3 kraken shell and above will render the stout shield 100% useless)
          Comprehensive Damage Reduction & Amplifications Dota 2 Guide

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          • #6
            i hope you are aware that both our equations are equivalent...
            Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

            Contributions i'd like to highlight:
            My Suggestion: Coaching System
            My Sticky: Intended Changes List
            My Challenge: Completely Fixed Hero Challenge: Skywrath Mage

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            • #7
              For Tide, Kraken will always proc EXCEPT when Stout/Vanguard does in which case only Stout/Vanguard will be used (I've bought Vanguard and maxed Kraken enough times to notice the damage it deals)

              For the Basher on Void question, it's impossible to buy a straight Basher on heroes that have stun abilities, I tried it once on a Void and just received the message "You cannot buy this item" though I'm not sure about building the item (I assume its bash effect is disabled)

              Not sure on multiple Bashers though (I think I remember Blitz buying 4 Bashers at one point and bashed nearly instantly after the cooldown finished, possibly multiple bashers allow for high chance to proc but as they all share the same cooldown it's inadvisable to build them)

              Comment


              • #8
                Thx for info guys. you rly helped me in that way
                Btw. One more question. Is somewhere a list of "SPELLS THAT WORKS THROUGH BKB?"
                Imo it would be nice to know which spells exactly work vs BKB when activated. Mb it would be fine to be able to find these things on dota2 website, don ´t you think?
                Ty for answers.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kubusta View Post
                  Btw. One more question. Is somewhere a list of "SPELLS THAT WORKS THROUGH BKB?"
                  Imo it would be nice to know which spells exactly work vs BKB when activated.
                  I'm not sure if this is a complete list but:

                  http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Magic_immunity

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kubusta View Post
                    Thx for info guys. you rly helped me in that way
                    Btw. One more question. Is somewhere a list of "SPELLS THAT WORKS THROUGH BKB?"
                    Imo it would be nice to know which spells exactly work vs BKB when activated. Mb it would be fine to be able to find these things on dota2 website, don ´t you think?
                    Ty for answers.
                    Well, they exist, but not in neat specifically vs BKB list.

                    For example, Axe's counter helix does physical damage so there's very little reason to question why it wouldn't damage magic immune.

                    Then there's Diabolic Edict, which does mixed damage (reduced by both magic resistance and armor) but can damage magic immune unit.

                    Then there's March of the Machine, doing magic damage and is reduced by magic resistance, but will damage magic immune units (Enigma's Midnight Pulse and Doom are the other 2 of the same interaction)

                    Then there's tiny's toss, which can't target magic immune units, but can fling one.

                    Or Invoker's Ice Wall, which won't affect magic immune units that go into it, but will still slow units that turn magic immune while under it.

                    So definition of 'work on BKB' can't be summarized to Yes/No option sometimes.

                    If you want, feel free to try and combine the information based on these two threads:
                    http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197761
                    http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204911
                    Every time someone make a false report.
                    Making people's losses feel worse with just my name (don't ask me how it work, I certainly don't)

                    Currently observed Orb(Unique Attack Modifiers), Critical, and Bash interactions for DotA2

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Kubusta View Post
                      Thx for info guys. you rly helped me in that way
                      Btw. One more question. Is somewhere a list of "SPELLS THAT WORKS THROUGH BKB?"
                      Imo it would be nice to know which spells exactly work vs BKB when activated. Mb it would be fine to be able to find these things on dota2 website, don ´t you think?
                      Ty for answers.
                      http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/User:Baloroth/BKBlist

                      Tada! I can't guarantee it is perfectly accurate or complete, but it should be. And yeah, the formatting sucks, I'll work on that when I have some extra time.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Baloroth View Post
                        http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/User:Baloroth/BKBlist

                        Tada! I can't guarantee it is perfectly accurate or complete, but it should be. And yeah, the formatting sucks, I'll work on that when I have some extra time.
                        At first glance enigma (2*) and hp-removal spells/items (e. g. wave of terror) are missing

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Belarion View Post
                          At first glance enigma (2*) and hp-removal spells/items (e. g. wave of terror) are missing
                          I believe Wave of Terror is actually blocked by BKB but I'd have to check. Not all HP Removal abilities work on BKB'd units (EMP, for example). Thanks for pointing those out though.

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