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(Discussion) New orb effect thread

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Skull View Post
    It' not dota 1. We should be able to have all those mechanics limitations eliminated.
    It would've been possible to make all orbs stack in Dota1 just by triggering their effects, as was done with Sange when it was considered too weak to be a real orb. Orb effects have gone from being a limitation of the engine to a balancing factor of items, making them all stack completely would have repercussions on item builds. It'd be like removing the mechanics limitation of orbwalking or animation canceling or only autoattacks causing creeps to aggro, all things that could've been changed in Dota1 if it was deemed beneficial to the game.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by SlyGoat View Post
      It would've been possible to make all orbs stack in Dota1 just by triggering their effects, as was done with Sange when it was considered too weak to be a real orb. Orb effects have gone from being a limitation of the engine to a balancing factor of items, making them all stack completely would have repercussions on item builds. It'd be like removing the mechanics limitation of orbwalking or animation canceling or only autoattacks causing creeps to aggro, all things that could've been changed in Dota1 if it was deemed beneficial to the game.
      Still, there should be some simplification of what overrides what and the manner in which they stack.
      There could also be better graphical indicators of which orb is active and which buff placer is active so that things are clear.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by okrane View Post
        Still, there should be some simplification of what overrides what and the manner in which they stack.
        There could also be better graphical indicators of which orb is active and which buff placer is active so that things are clear.
        Are you referring to DotA1 or 2 with this comment?

        The current system is pretty damn simple already (chance/timer proc > permanent one and hero's ability > item)

        As for the graphic indicator, they'll probably do something about it, maybe they're figuring out what's the best way to represent each effects (like how they changed magic immunity to the golden spiral we see).
        Every time someone make a false report.
        Making people's losses feel worse with just my name (don't ask me how it work, I certainly don't)

        Currently observed Orb(Unique Attack Modifiers), Critical, and Bash interactions for DotA2

        To:
        People who cry MM isn't fair: Maybe you're not as great as you make yourself to be.
        People who wants surrender: It exists, but I'm not teaching you how to do it.

        Comment


        • #34
          I like how orbs work currently. I even like the fact the fact that maelstrom/mjollnir stack multiplicatively because it's hilarious. But that doesn't mean it's not subject to change or even subject to be returned entirely to how it worked in DotA if it proves problematic.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by RoflCat View Post
            Are you referring to DotA1 or 2 with this comment?

            The current system is pretty damn simple already (chance/timer proc > permanent one and hero's ability > item)

            As for the graphic indicator, they'll probably do something about it, maybe they're figuring out what's the best way to represent each effects (like how they changed magic immunity to the golden spiral we see).
            Hmm, not really tho.
            how about the whole Lifesteal + Skadi thing? I personally don't get it still.

            Comment


            • #36
              Changes are good, except huge nerf for Clinkz....

              Comment


              • #37
                Can someone write a guide to the new system? I'm not getting it, really.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by 7_ShininGAngel View Post
                  Can someone write a guide to the new system? I'm not getting it, really.
                  2 Basic rules:
                  Chance/CD to proc orb override non-proc orbs when it proc, doesn't do anything otherwise.
                  Hero orb > item orb.

                  EDIT: Done, I think.
                  Last edited by RoflCat; 02-12-2012, 10:55 PM.
                  Every time someone make a false report.
                  Making people's losses feel worse with just my name (don't ask me how it work, I certainly don't)

                  Currently observed Orb(Unique Attack Modifiers), Critical, and Bash interactions for DotA2

                  To:
                  People who cry MM isn't fair: Maybe you're not as great as you make yourself to be.
                  People who wants surrender: It exists, but I'm not teaching you how to do it.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Nice thread, you could add other attack effects, just to have all the info gathered.

                    For example, Naix's feast is now added to your damage, and cleaves/crits/lifesteals, just like Viper works in both games.

                    Also, MKB true strike works against everything now (buildings, etc) but that probably is outside the purpose of this thread.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Which effects do you want me to test?
                      (Also, after seeing your other thread I went and re-did a bit of testing, some of the bash results have changed so I edited the OP to reflect them...particularly that Slardar/Void's bashes no longer proc on siege units or towers)

                      EDIT: Can't make private lobby atm, leave anything you want me to test here and I'll get to it when I've got free time between murdering bots.
                      Last edited by RoflCat; 03-03-2012, 05:58 AM.
                      Every time someone make a false report.
                      Making people's losses feel worse with just my name (don't ask me how it work, I certainly don't)

                      Currently observed Orb(Unique Attack Modifiers), Critical, and Bash interactions for DotA2

                      To:
                      People who cry MM isn't fair: Maybe you're not as great as you make yourself to be.
                      People who wants surrender: It exists, but I'm not teaching you how to do it.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Crit:
                        Highest multiplier take priority, end of story. (Yes, it's that simple, hooray)
                        So just to clarify (because nothing is ever THAT SIMPLE), Chaos Knight's 10% chance of a 3x crit, for example, would override Daedalus' 25% chance of a 2.5x crit entirely? Not just on the attacks where the 10% crit procced?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by SlyGoat View Post
                          So just to clarify (because nothing is ever THAT SIMPLE), Chaos Knight's 10% chance of a 3x crit, for example, would override Daedalus' 25% chance of a 2.5x crit entirely? Not just on the attacks where the 10% crit procced?
                          When they both proc, 3x will take effect regardless of order of acquisition (so PA can get Daedalus without worrying about nerfing her own damage now).

                          I've edited the OP to be a bit more clear.
                          Last edited by RoflCat; 03-03-2012, 06:51 AM.
                          Every time someone make a false report.
                          Making people's losses feel worse with just my name (don't ask me how it work, I certainly don't)

                          Currently observed Orb(Unique Attack Modifiers), Critical, and Bash interactions for DotA2

                          To:
                          People who cry MM isn't fair: Maybe you're not as great as you make yourself to be.
                          People who wants surrender: It exists, but I'm not teaching you how to do it.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            thats basically not right, in dota crits stacked like

                            P(crit) = 1 - (1 - 1st critchance)*(1 - 2nd critchance)*...

                            several other formulas for the first/second/third gained crits

                            source:
                            http://dotawiki.de/index.php/Critical_Strike#Stacking

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by RoflCat View Post
                              Which effects do you want me to test?
                              (Also, after seeing your other thread I went and re-did a bit of testing, some of the bash results have changed so I edited the OP to reflect them...particularly that Slardar/Void's bashes no longer proc on siege units or towers)

                              EDIT: Can't make private lobby atm, leave anything you want me to test here and I'll get to it when I've got free time between murdering bots.
                              Well, considering you already have bashes and orbs effects, you could add non-orb non-bash attack effects (if they cleave, if they heal with lifesteal, if they crit).

                              The ones I can think of:

                              Feast
                              Fury Swipes
                              Backstab
                              Shadow Walk (BH)
                              Shadow Blade
                              Diffusal Balde
                              Incapacitating Bite

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by greystar_ View Post
                                thats basically not right, in dota crits stacked like

                                P(crit) = 1 - (1 - 1st critchance)*(1 - 2nd critchance)*...

                                several other formulas for the first/second/third gained crits

                                source:
                                http://dotawiki.de/index.php/Critical_Strike#Stacking
                                This thread is about the mechanical differences between DotA and Dota2. Not about how crits stacked in DotA.

                                Originally posted by shalafi View Post
                                Well, considering you already have bashes and orbs effects, you could add non-orb non-bash attack effects (if they cleave, if they heal with lifesteal, if they crit).

                                The ones I can think of:

                                Feast
                                Fury Swipes
                                Backstab
                                Shadow Walk (BH)
                                Shadow Blade
                                Diffusal Balde
                                Incapacitating Bite
                                Fury Swipes, Diffusal Blade and Incapacitating Bite are all orbs.

                                Comment

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