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(Discussion) New orb effect thread

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  • #91
    Originally posted by winxp View Post
    The tooltip for Skadi says that it only stacks on ranged. Is the tooltip wrong?
    The tooltip is wrong right now.
    http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=8902 It's already on the list though so no need to report it again.

    Basically one of the tester noticed the tooltip didn't say it work only on range (i.e. DotA1 interaction) and it got changed to such, then later on I found that and made a report about it (that in DotA2 it's working for both), but the tooltip has yet to be changed to reflect DotA2's interaction nor the item changed to reflect DotA1's.

    So it is technically a bug that it work on melee if you look from DotA1 perspective, but considering the new system seem to standardize items for melee/range (see MKB interaction) we could say the item is working as intended and the tooltip is wrong.

    Only Valve have the final say on it though so we have to wait and see, like the Clinkz and Skadi case.
    Every time someone make a false report.
    Making people's losses feel worse with just my name (don't ask me how it work, I certainly don't)

    Currently observed Orb(Unique Attack Modifiers), Critical, and Bash interactions for DotA2

    To:
    People who cry MM isn't fair: Maybe you're not as great as you make yourself to be.
    People who wants surrender: It exists, but I'm not teaching you how to do it.

    Comment


    • #92
      So this is why I see void with Mjolnir and MoM. WTH is this... I didn't really look into this issue because I just assumed that the original orb stacking rules were carried over. This is ridiculous, this is exactly like the beta of HoN, which is one of the reasons why I stopped playing. Personally I feel that this is quite game breaking. I'm going to try diffusal + maelstorm on PL, and see how that turns out. Someone mentioned HotD + Mjolnir on DK and how it worked like a charm in games.

      These are just some of the potential problems. I assume that most players do not know about this at the moment, but once it spreads, the metagame maybe changed drastically.

      Comment


      • #93
        What do you mean None in Skull Basher/Abyssal Blade? It is Physical/Magical imo, that is why it goes through BKB but doesnt hit tower.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by ElderBuu View Post
          What do you mean None in Skull Basher/Abyssal Blade? It is Physical/Magical imo, that is why it goes through BKB but doesnt hit tower.
          It means that there is no extra damage applied to the target when a bash occurs.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by smokedsalmon View Post
            It means that there is no extra damage applied to the target when a bash occurs.
            'None' is written in the "Damage Type" column. Pretty sure he made the column to differentiate between Magical and physical type and not for bonus damage.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by jackyan22 View Post
              So this is why I see void with Mjolnir and MoM. WTH is this... I didn't really look into this issue because I just assumed that the original orb stacking rules were carried over. This is ridiculous, this is exactly like the beta of HoN, which is one of the reasons why I stopped playing. Personally I feel that this is quite game breaking. I'm going to try diffusal + maelstorm on PL, and see how that turns out. Someone mentioned HotD + Mjolnir on DK and how it worked like a charm in games.

              These are just some of the potential problems. I assume that most players do not know about this at the moment, but once it spreads, the metagame maybe changed drastically.
              I've known about the Mjol/other orb stacking thing for 7 months now. So have the pros and many pub players. I've yet to see any shift in metagame at all (pubs or competitive). Mjollnir was a pretty rare item as it was in DotA, and it hasn't gotten much more popular even with the change.

              MoM + Mjollnir is asking to get nuked into oblivion in 2 seconds.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by ElderBuu View Post
                'None' is written in the "Damage Type" column. Pretty sure he made the column to differentiate between Magical and physical type and not for bonus damage.
                I did because there's no damage bonus/unknown type actually. The magical/physical stun thing have been changed and now it simply depends on what is the source of the bash rather than if it's also on melee/range hero. So a range hero (in dota1 would be physical damage and magical stun) with Basher can stun a hero with BKB, etc.

                The damage type column is for whether the bonus damage is reduced by armor or magic resistance.
                Every time someone make a false report.
                Making people's losses feel worse with just my name (don't ask me how it work, I certainly don't)

                Currently observed Orb(Unique Attack Modifiers), Critical, and Bash interactions for DotA2

                To:
                People who cry MM isn't fair: Maybe you're not as great as you make yourself to be.
                People who wants surrender: It exists, but I'm not teaching you how to do it.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by ElderBuu View Post
                  'None' is written in the "Damage Type" column. Pretty sure he made the column to differentiate between Magical and physical type and not for bonus damage.
                  The stun type is indicated by the column labeled "Stun Magic Immune".

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Baloroth View Post
                    I've known about the Mjol/other orb stacking thing for 7 months now. So have the pros and many pub players. I've yet to see any shift in metagame at all (pubs or competitive). Mjollnir was a pretty rare item as it was in DotA, and it hasn't gotten much more popular even with the change.

                    MoM + Mjollnir is asking to get nuked into oblivion in 2 seconds.
                    I stopped playing DoTA for around a year, when I got Dota 2 I just assumed everything stayed the same. About void with Mjollnir, I don't think it's a problem for him considering he should catch most nukers with ulti anyways. But that's a strategy discussion. It is a luxury item so not many people buy it anyways, considering there are usually better alternatives. But say the game drags on to beyond an hour, I believe that the new orb will be game changing. Void was a bad example, but what if it's windrunner with scepter and HotD? That thing will pro almost every second dealing full damage while providing lifesteal as well.

                    Comment


                    • am I seeing it right that mkb on melee heros cannot (mini)stun the enemy any more if he uses bkb, unlike in dota 1?

                      what about more than 1 kind of bash on a hero, regarding the bash duration. e.g. sniper with headshot who later on acquires a mkb. will mkb ministun duration the headshot duration, like in dota 1? I guess that was only due to truestrike, right?

                      and for completeness, please add tinys craggy to the bash table, whether you can be stunned by it when being magic immune or not.

                      for crits, am I seeing it right that when both proc that, unlike in dota1, only the higher crit multiplier is being displayed, so that you basically dont know as player, whether it was a double/override crit that proced or simply a hit with a crit of the highest crit multiplier only?

                      regarding orbs, does that mean when I get lifesteal on anti mage now in dota 2, it will never work because of mana break? any way to get round this via slot priorities, because sometimes its more useful to have lifeleech than e.g. a searing arrows kind of orb e.g. when having a farmed clinkz etc.
                      Last edited by Thunderbolt; 06-25-2012, 11:32 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Thunderbolt View Post
                        am I seeing it right that mkb on melee heros cannot (mini)stun the enemy any more if he uses bkb, unlike in dota 1?
                        Yes.

                        Originally posted by Thunderbolt View Post
                        what about more than 1 kind of bash on a hero, regarding the bash duration. e.g. sniper with headshot who later on acquires a mkb. will mkb ministun duration the headshot duration, like in dota 1? I guess that was only due to truestrike, right?
                        Subsequent bashes will extend stuns such that the target will be stunned for the maximum duration.

                        Originally posted by Thunderbolt View Post
                        and for completeness, please add tinys craggy to the bash table, whether you can be stunned by it when being magic immune or not.
                        I dont see why it should be added, as it is a standard passive and has nothing to do with attack modifiers. FYI, it does not go through magic immunity, as expected of an ordinary non-ultimate passive.

                        Originally posted by Thunderbolt View Post
                        for crits, am I seeing it right that when both proc that, unlike in dota1, only the higher crit multiplier is being displayed, so that you basically dont know as player, whether it was a double/override crit that proced or simply a hit with a crit of the highest crit multiplier only?
                        Highest crit multiplier will override any other crit if they proc together. Doesn't have anything to do with what is 'displayed'.

                        Originally posted by Thunderbolt View Post
                        regarding orbs, does that mean when I get lifesteal on anti mage now in dota 2, it will never work because of mana break? any way to get round this via slot priorities, because sometimes its more useful to have lifeleech than e.g. a searing arrows kind of orb e.g. when having a farmed clinkz etc.
                        Yes. And there is no way to get around it.


                        Roflcat's tables are pretty clear and free of error. The answer to all your above questions are right there.
                        Always read and follow the forum rules. If you need help from a moderator, use the report button ()
                        Before posting new bugs:
                        -Check the Known Bugs List and search the forum for an existing report.
                        -Make sure its a bug (test in WC3 Dota, visit playdota guides and adv. mech, etc). If you're still not sure, post in Mechanics and Gameplay Bug Brainstorming instead.
                        -Read the Bug Posting Guidelines on how to report a bug properly.

                        Comment


                        • How do you read the "Crit" table? I thought I understood it but then it says

                          Antimage - Mana Break
                          Can Crit? No
                          Can Lifesteal? Yes

                          First of all, I didn't even think Mana Break was a crit since it doesn't give you damage based off your base damage but just a fixed damage bonus. Wouldn't that make it more like a sniper mini-bash (except it doesn't bash)?

                          Maybe that's what the "Can crit/cleave?" column means - yes (uses base damage x multiplier), or no (fixed extra damage)?

                          Then on to the "Can Lifesteal", I read that when the skill (Mana Break) procs to give you extra damage, you can apply lifesteal on the extra damage. But everyone else it says that mana break doesn't stack with lifesteal and that mana break has higher priority. Is this just a typo or am I misunderstanding?

                          Comment


                          • he must be referring to lifesteal as aura then, e.g. from vlads.

                            still imho it kinda sucks this way. lifesteal should be the main priority orb as in dota 1. :/

                            is there actually any kind of interaction with phase boots speed boost and crits or bashes? in dota 1 afaik you couldnt proc bashes while the phase effect is active. or some other abilities broke that phase effect. is there anything like this in dota 2 as well?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Thunderbolt View Post
                              he must be referring to lifesteal as aura then, e.g. from vlads.

                              still imho it kinda sucks this way. lifesteal should be the main priority orb as in dota 1. :/

                              is there actually any kind of interaction with phase boots speed boost and crits or bashes? in dota 1 afaik you couldnt proc bashes while the phase effect is active. or some other abilities broke that phase effect. is there anything like this in dota 2 as well?
                              Yes, he means lifesteal auras. You know, there is even a note at the bottom of the table stating that.

                              No. These were limitations with phase boots in the wc3 engine and have been removed.

                              FYI, although phase buff being dispelled by any spell cast is also technically a limitation, it in particular was retained.


                              @Downtown1, what it means by "Can Crit: No" is that if you have crystalys or daedelus, when you crit it won't multiply the mana burn damage. This distinction is made because some other abilities that give a fixed damage bonus can crit, and some others can't.
                              Last edited by DLRevan; 06-27-2012, 12:38 AM.
                              Always read and follow the forum rules. If you need help from a moderator, use the report button ()
                              Before posting new bugs:
                              -Check the Known Bugs List and search the forum for an existing report.
                              -Make sure its a bug (test in WC3 Dota, visit playdota guides and adv. mech, etc). If you're still not sure, post in Mechanics and Gameplay Bug Brainstorming instead.
                              -Read the Bug Posting Guidelines on how to report a bug properly.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Downtown1 View Post
                                How do you read the "Crit" table? I thought I understood it but then it says

                                Antimage - Mana Break
                                Can Crit? No
                                Can Lifesteal? Yes

                                First of all, I didn't even think Mana Break was a crit since it doesn't give you damage based off your base damage but just a fixed damage bonus. Wouldn't that make it more like a sniper mini-bash (except it doesn't bash)?

                                Maybe that's what the "Can crit/cleave?" column means - yes (uses base damage x multiplier), or no (fixed extra damage)?


                                Then on to the "Can Lifesteal", I read that when the skill (Mana Break) procs to give you extra damage, you can apply lifesteal on the extra damage. But everyone else it says that mana break doesn't stack with lifesteal and that mana break has higher priority. Is this just a typo or am I misunderstanding?

                                It's been answered by Raven already, but I figured I'd point it out anyway...


                                First on the crit/cleave, look above the chart: "some bonus damage's interaction with crits (Lifesteal will heal you for the final damage)"
                                That chart deal with whether the extra damage from those skills can crit and/or add to the amount you can lifesteal.

                                And the lifesteal, look below: "NOTE: The orb that says Yes on Lifesteal require you to have some way of gaining the lifesteal that's not an orb (Vlad aura, Skeleton King)"
                                Every time someone make a false report.
                                Making people's losses feel worse with just my name (don't ask me how it work, I certainly don't)

                                Currently observed Orb(Unique Attack Modifiers), Critical, and Bash interactions for DotA2

                                To:
                                People who cry MM isn't fair: Maybe you're not as great as you make yourself to be.
                                People who wants surrender: It exists, but I'm not teaching you how to do it.

                                Comment

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