Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules

  • No flaming or derogatory remarks, directly or through insinuation.
  • No discussion, sharing or referencing illegal software such as hacks, keygen, cracks and pirated software.
  • No offensive contents, including but not limited to, racism, gore or pornography.
  • No excessive spam/meme, i.e. copious one liners in a short period of time, typing with all caps or posting meme responses (text/image).
  • No trolling, including but not limited to, flame incitation, user provocation or false information distribution.
  • No link spamming or signature advertisements for content not specific to Dota 2.
  • No Dota 2 key requests, sell, trade etc.
  • You may not create multiple accounts for any purpose, including ban evasion, unless expressly permitted by a moderator.

  • Please search before posting. One thread per issue. Do not create another thread if there is an existing one already.
  • Before posting anything, make sure you check out all sticky threads (e.g., this). Do not create new threads about closed ones.
  • It is extremely important that you post in correct forum section.

  • Balance discussion only in Misc.
  • All art related (such as hero model) feedbacks go to Art Feedback Forum.
  • All matchmaking feedback should go here: Matchmaking Feedback
  • All report/low priority issues should go here: Commend/Report/Ban Feedback
  • No specific workshop item feedback. These should go to workshop page of that item.
  • When posting in non-bugs section (such as this), use [Bugs], [Discussion] or [Suggestion] prefix in your thread name.



In case you object some action by a moderator, please contact him directly through PM and explain your concerns politely. If you are still unable to resolve the issue, contact an administrator. Do not drag these issues in public.



All rules are meant to augment common sense, please use them when not conflicted with aforementioned policies.
See more
See less

Faceless Void's Backtrack

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Faceless Void's Backtrack

    Summary:

    Triggered heals have been slightly changed in dota 2, making them avoid the damage all together and no longer using pre-heals and post-heals resulting in a bit of a balance change for void, as his backtrack used a pre-heal in WC3 DotA, meaning that he couldn't be healed to 100% health after a backtrack trigger (heal THEN damage), making lina ulting him on full hp very effective for example.

    Repro:

    1) Get void with level 4 backtrack, or multiple voids all with lvl 4 backtrack
    2) Cast an AoE ability on them all while they have full HP (I used outworld destroyer's ultimate as it has a large AoE and is reliable and does noticeable damage)

    Result:

    The voids vary in HP depending on whether or not they procced backtrack

    Expected result:

    Since it is a pre-heal (and specifically set to be a pre-heal, as opposed to other triggered heals in WC3) they should all be damaged the same amount from full HP, regardless of whether backtrack triggered or not.

    EDIT:

    Can you please rename this to have pre-heal in the title somewhere? Seeing as it's slightly more mechanics based than most backtrack threads :P
    Last edited by Wyn-Ryder; 10-25-2012, 08:35 AM.
    Comprehensive Damage Reduction & Amplifications Dota 2 Guide

  • #2
    I belive it should stay as it is now. Fits better the hero, makes more sense either.
    WC3 engina had issues with some mechanics, I belive the way Icy found to implement it effecively with all kinds of damage was to use a pre-heal.

    Comment


    • #3
      I am honestly not sure if this is intended or not, thing is most of triggered heals are dynamic due to introduction time AFAIK and this was never changed to be dynamic and is kept this way likely due to laziness.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Shamanics View Post
        ...this was never changed to be dynamic and is kept this way likely due to laziness.
        agreed. pretty much this

        Comment


        • #5
          I have noticed this too. Triggered heals seem to have been replaced by simply setting the damage source to 0. I do agree that it fits better with the skill now, doing exactly what the tooltip says. Having a chance to avoid damage shouldn't be dependent on your HP.
          Last edited by EmblemLord; 10-25-2012, 02:15 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by EmblemLord View Post
            I have noticed this too. Triggered heals seem to have been replaced by simply setting the damage source to 0. I do agree that it fits better with the skill now, doing exactly what the tooltip says. Having a chance to avoid damage shouldn't be dependent on your HP.
            Exacly.
            The mechanics dont do what the tooltip says at wc3 dota. So it does what it should do now.
            As the heal had to be before hit, cos he could die after, thats why that glitch of full hp burst exists in dota 1...
            And for laziness it stayed this way until now.
            Last edited by RocketFingers; 10-25-2012, 03:38 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by RocketFingers View Post
              Exacly.
              The mechanics dont do what the tooltip says at wc3 dota. So it does what it should do now.
              As the heal had to be before hit, cos he could die after, thats why that glitch of full hp burst exists in dota 1...
              And for laziness it stayed this way until now.
              No. Most triggered heals use "dynamic" heals, making it so that when you are damaged at full HP it heals AFTER, such as abaddon's shield and spectre's dispersion - however when you have enough hp missing for it to pre-heal without hitting your max HP cap it will do so, so your logic is flawed, it COULD have been changed to be like the others, yet it wasn't.
              Comprehensive Damage Reduction & Amplifications Dota 2 Guide

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Wyn-Ryder View Post
                No. Most triggered heals use "dynamic" heals, making it so that when you are damaged at full HP it heals AFTER, such as abaddon's shield and spectre's dispersion - however when you have enough hp missing for it to pre-heal without hitting your max HP cap it will do so, so your logic is flawed, it COULD have been changed to be like the others, yet it wasn't.
                "full hp burst" refers to heroes dying when the damage dealt exceeds the target's maximum HP, regardless of triggered heals like Shallow Grave. It should be obvious why this is the case (can't heal more than your max health). There's no reason to try and shovel all the engine limitations like triggered heals into Dota 2 .
                Please help keep the forums clean by reporting rude or abusive posts!
                Got a problem? PM me or another moderator!
                Forum Rules

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DarkLite View Post
                  "full hp burst" refers to heroes dying when the damage dealt exceeds the target's maximum HP, regardless of triggered heals like Shallow Grave. It should be obvious why this is the case (can't heal more than your max health). There's no reason to try and shovel all the engine limitations like triggered heals into Dota 2 .
                  This one isn't due to an engine limitation though, it's intentionally coded differently than say Refraction, so that it only PRE-HEALS to make it less effective. It could easily use a dynamic heal, then would be consistent with Dota 2, but it doesn't.
                  Comprehensive Damage Reduction & Amplifications Dota 2 Guide

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    TBH, it really could have stayed this way just because Icefrog saw no real need to change it to dynamic heal. It works most of the time like its supposed to. Centuar's double edge suicide issue in the main forum being a case in point. *COUGH*laziness*COUGH*

                    Backtrack pre-dates all other uses of dynamic heal, if I'm not wrong.
                    Always read and follow the forum rules. If you need help from a moderator, use the report button ()
                    Before posting new bugs:
                    -Check the Known Bugs List and search the forum for an existing report.
                    -Make sure its a bug (test in WC3 Dota, visit playdota guides and adv. mech, etc). If you're still not sure, post in Mechanics and Gameplay Bug Brainstorming instead.
                    -Read the Bug Posting Guidelines on how to report a bug properly.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by EmblemLord View Post
                      Having a chance to avoid damage shouldn't be dependent on your HP.
                      I totally agree with this.
                      If it is not dynamic on W3 DotA, then it should be.
                      And if making it so causes noticable balance issues, then the dodge chances can be adjusted.

                      The way it is on W3 DotA cannot be intentional.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DLRevan View Post
                        TBH, it really could have stayed this way just because Icefrog saw no real need to change it to dynamic heal. It works most of the time like its supposed to.
                        that is laziness. it works as intended maybe 95% of the time. better to make it 100%

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Eric37073 View Post
                          that is laziness. it works as intended maybe 95% of the time. better to make it 100%
                          Exactly.
                          Always read and follow the forum rules. If you need help from a moderator, use the report button ()
                          Before posting new bugs:
                          -Check the Known Bugs List and search the forum for an existing report.
                          -Make sure its a bug (test in WC3 Dota, visit playdota guides and adv. mech, etc). If you're still not sure, post in Mechanics and Gameplay Bug Brainstorming instead.
                          -Read the Bug Posting Guidelines on how to report a bug properly.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            not sure whether I understood, is backtrack now really behaving the way that dmg can potentially always be backtracked, no matter if you have 1 hp or full hp? if not, are there consistend or inconsistend situations when this could occur and if unconsisted, why unconsistend?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              In dota1 it was inconsistent when your HP was at or near maximum, where your maximum possible HP after being hit was equal to total - damage dealt. This is no longer the case, it always works the same way taking all of the damage.
                              Comprehensive Damage Reduction & Amplifications Dota 2 Guide

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X