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Unit Pathing/Collision - WC3 vs DOTA2

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  • Unit Pathing/Collision - WC3 vs DOTA2

    OK, so after a few games as Lone Druid (I don't play him much) I realized how crappy the pathing can be with units that have different move speeds (have you ever been blocked for even 1 second by creeps as you are trying to get around one that is chasing an enemy hero?)

    I checked WC3 to see as I don't remember it being quite that way and made a little video:

    Note, there is one key difference between WC3 and D2. In WC3 if you select both units at once, the bear moves as slow as your hero, they don't collide. If you select both units in Dota2, the bear tries to walk as fast as it can, but since pathing is retarded it keeps running into you.

    Ideally, for units (at least for the bear) that are way slower than others, can we just have a simple speed calculation+path intersection done, and have one unit pass the other? This is done in WC3 by pausing the hero and letting the bear get around.

    Not sure if its a bug or intended, I just figured I'd show an example, and let the community talk.

  • #2
    This video is private.

    Open the video to the public.


    • #3
      Originally posted by Bogdan_X View Post
      This video is private.

      Open the video to the public.


      • #4
        I noticed in Dota 2 you selected both units in the same time, like in a formation and in Dota 1 you where clicking them 1 by 1 never selecting them both.

        In Dota 1 you also have the formation toggle movement (Alt-F) the option to have all the units in that formation to move at the speed of the slowest unit in the group. (usually in Dota 1 its best to have that off)

        But yea even with those things I noticed in Dota 1 the units are smart enough to pass around the slower unit after a bit of 'interaction' if you will... the "AI" or what you want to call it.. in Dota 2 is lacking in that department and it keeps bumping and bumping resulting in loss of tempo / time / distance covered etc if you don't micro them individually.

        There is a difference here from Dota 1 Blizzard to Dota 2 Valve.

        Lets see feedback and opinions from others, I just tried Sylla in Dota 1 then in Dota 2 and I noticed the 'meh' patting/collision/AI difference.


        • #5
          Originally posted by vostok4 View Post
          Note, there is one key difference between WC3 and D2. In WC3 if you select both units at once, the bear moves as slow as your hero, they don't collide.
          That part happens because you have the Toggle Formation Movement option ON. The circular button at the bottom right side of the minimap. The one with 6 dots in it. Can be toggled by clicking on it or Alt-F.

          Other than that, you are right, W3 seems to allow faster units to get ahead of the slower units that are going through the same path. I think it follows this logic;
          1. Pause both of the units as soon as they collide
          2. Allow the unit with faster movement speed to continue its path first, and keep the slower unit paused on its spot
          3. As soon as the collision ends, release the slow unit, too

          It cares for this only if the units that are in question are owned by the exact same player. Not just team.
          If Player 1 and Player 2 collides in the same fashion, they do whatever they do on Dota 2 currently.
          If, however, unit A under the control of Player 1, and then unit B, again owned by Player 1 collides by any means, then they do the thing I described above.


          • #6
            warcraft 3 pathing is "smart" and made for multiple units. dota 2 is meant for precise control of a single unit so they won't try to go around or wait for eachother.

            probably optimizable in some way to minimize unintentional blocking but i don't really see this as a problem.


            • #7
              Dota 2 pathing is what causes units to have parkinsons disease while chasing around a tower, jittering like they had someone knit the leg parts together. Dota 2 pathing is what actually makes me work more to get things done right, apart from few things such as Spectre's dagger being a buggy rightclick spamfest in WC3.

              Why WC3 pathing seems clunky is because the animations don't really blend together all that well, the units seem like as if they stop or "reset" themselves before taking a new order. That and the "simple" gfx made quite a lot of stuff far more intuitively recognizeable, though it's not a huge issue in dota 2, especially if graphics are put to lower settings.


              • #8
                the bit with towers should be fixed. they don't move so it should be obvious that you need to go around them.


                • #9
                  The biggest issue with pathing in Dota 2 is the way groups of units move together. In WCIII they moved as a single amorphous bunch, meaning they more or less arrived together at the end location at the same time. But in Dota 2, they form up into a single Conga Line that takes much longer to get anywhere. This is a severe problem for Broodmother in particular and I'm really saddened that Valve have not fixed this yet. It makes moving her spiders so much more tedious and more difficult than in Warcraft III (not counting the ability to move more units at once in Dota 2 than WCIII, ofc, this is only about the pathing of the group).


                  • #10
                    WC3 had the option to choose either independent or organised unit movement. Given by the Triangular button next to the map (arranged movement or something like that) as opposed to the other icon it changes to.

                    And in dota 2 it's independent movement, and cannot be changed (to my knowledge - read that I am not 100% sure about this)
                    Last edited by Wyn-Ryder; 04-14-2013, 07:22 PM.
                    Comprehensive Damage Reduction & Amplifications Dota 2 Guide


                    • #11
                      ryder is right.
                      two options on how to move as a group, either independently or as a group/unit.
                      i dont think its such a bad thing to learn, microing that is.
                      maybe valve would add that feature or not, but thats a horrible way of playing because ur bear is fucking useless if u decide to move it slower and not directly control it


                      • #12
                        Nah, that option (group movement) had to be turned off for proper unit movement in wc3.
                        You're only as strong as your weakest link.
                        -Thomas Reid


                        • #13
                          DotA 1 pathing was better both with and without formation movement. I couldn't block Spirit Bear unless I deliberately tried to, using trees on one side With no obstructions, I couldn't block Spirit Bear with or without formation movement toggled.. Formation movement also slows Spirit Bear down to your speed.


                          • #14
                            I just want to chime in with something which might be related.

                            In DotA 1, it was much easier to completely halt a unit from moving through blocking. It is performed by intercepting the escaping units path by crossing the path back and forth. It will make the unit stand still because it can't figure out whether it should go left or go right to get around the unit. So if the escaping player does not click very small steps in front of himself, trying to counteract the criss-cross movement of the blocking unit, he will pretty much be standing still twitching. I can't provide a video, but upon request, I can try to draw it

                            This is definitely feasible in DotA 2, but it is so much harder, and there is a very good chance that you will end up blocking yourself on the target you are trying to stop, rather than blocking him.

                            Hope this makes sense, or someone can at least relate ;__;
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