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[Intended?] Dark Pact & Kraken Shell completely remove sticky napalm

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  • [Intended?] Dark Pact & Kraken Shell completely remove sticky napalm

    Originally posted by ThoAppelsin View Post
    t in sec
    0 ~ 5
    5 ~ 10
    10 ~ 15
    15 ~ 20
    20 ~ 25
    25 ~ 27
    27 ~ 30
    30 ~ 35
    35 ~ 40
    40 ~ 45
    45 ~ 50
    pre-patch 9% slow
    70% t-slow
    25 dmgamp
    18% slow
    70% t-slow
    50 dmgamp
    27% slow
    70% t-slow
    75 dmgamp
    36% slow
    70% t-slow
    100 dmgamp
    45% slow
    70% t-slow
    125 dmgamp
    54% slow
    70% t-slow
    150 dmgamp
    slark casts dark pact at 0:25.5
    54% slow
    70% t-slow
    150 dmgamp
    63% slow
    70% t-slow
    175 dmgamp
    72% slow
    70% t-slow
    200 dmgamp
    81% slow
    70% t-slow
    225 dmgamp
    90% slow
    70% t-slow
    250 dmgamp
    W3 DotA 9% slow
    70% t-slow
    25 dmgamp
    18% slow
    70% t-slow
    50 dmgamp
    27% slow
    70% t-slow
    75 dmgamp
    36% slow
    70% t-slow
    100 dmgamp
    45% slow
    70% t-slow
    125 dmgamp
    54% slow
    70% t-slow
    150 dmgamp
    slark casts dark pact at 0:25.5
    0% slow
    70% t-slow
    150 dmgamp
    63% slow
    70% t-slow
    175 dmgamp
    72% slow
    70% t-slow
    200 dmgamp
    81% slow
    70% t-slow
    225 dmgamp
    90% slow
    70% t-slow
    250 dmgamp
    post-patch 9% slow
    70% t-slow
    25 dmgamp
    18% slow
    70% t-slow
    50 dmgamp
    27% slow
    70% t-slow
    75 dmgamp
    36% slow
    70% t-slow
    100 dmgamp
    45% slow
    70% t-slow
    125 dmgamp
    54% slow
    70% t-slow
    150 dmgamp
    slark casts dark pact at 0:25.5
    0% slow
    0% t-slow
    0 dmgamp
    9% slow
    70% t-slow
    25 dmgamp
    18% slow
    70% t-slow
    50 dmgamp
    27% slow
    70% t-slow
    75 dmgamp
    36% slow
    70% t-slow
    100 dmgamp


    Originally posted by ChrisC View Post
    - Fixed Dark Pact and and Kraken Shell not removing Sticky Napalm, Shadow Strike, Venomous Gale, Poison Nova and Viper Strike.

    Well the rest is correct, but...
    Sticky Napalm should not be fully removed by Dark Pact and and Kraken Shell.

    Dark Pact and and Kraken Shell should only remove Sticky Napalm's slow, but even that should happen just momentaneously.
    Let me explain what happens on W3 DotA:

    Let's say you have stacked 10 x level 4 Napalms on a Slark or or Tidehunter; resulting in 90% movement slow 70% turn rate slow and 250 magical bonus damage on each damage instance done by the Batrider
    And then this Slark casts Dark Pact or or the Tidehunter's Kraken Shell procs
    At that moment, the 90% movement slow gets removed; resulting in 0% movement slow 70% turn rate slow and 250 magical bonus damage ...
    >> So, we have to agree here, turn rate slow and amplified damage aspects do not get removed at all.
    Then, the Batrider dude casts one, only one Sticky Napalm on this Slark or or Tidehunter, and BAM; resulting in full 90% movement slow 70% turn rate slow and 250 magical bonus damage ...
    >> So, even the movement slow doesn't get fully removed, it just gets temporarily removed until another instance of Sticky Napalm is cast upon these two fellas, Slark and and Tidehunter.


    Another scenario:
    > Cast 2 Sticky Napalms on the Slark; 18% ms slow and the rest...
    > Slark casts Dark Pact
    > 0% ms slow, rest is still there
    > 1 more Sticky Napalm on the Slark; 27% ms slow and the rest


    I have tested all these. I am pretty much sure on all these. If anybody has doubts, feel free to test it yourselves.
    This skill has 3 seconds of cooldown and the buff duration is 10 seconds long, meaning that this Batrider guy has 7 full seconds to refresh the Napalm. This isn't an unrealistic scenario, at all.
    Last edited by ThoAppelsin; 02-08-2013, 07:36 PM.

  • #2
    That's a pretty strange interaction. I wonder if it's due to a WC3 engine limitation?

    Comment


    • #3
      Nah, removing it entirely shouldn't be a problem at W3, I think. I am almost sure that it could be made to get entirely removed on DotA.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Bleako View Post
        That's a pretty strange interaction. I wonder if it's due to a WC3 engine limitation?
        From what I understand the 70% turn rate slow was hard to put into the original DotA, and possibly the bonus magic damage for Batrider's spells for each stack. Unless I'm wrong (which I probably am) they weren't kept as buffs and only the slow was an actual buff, the others were triggers or instances that couldn't be removed by purges instantly.

        Comment


        • #5
          I am pretty sure this is intended.

          Comment


          • #6
            ...
            This is too much.
            On DotA, it barely gets removed, and even after that, applying one more Sticky Napalm instance reverts everything back.
            I mean, it almost doesn't get removed at all, and yet it gets fully removed on Dota 2.

            Comment


            • #7
              a bug is a bug. and i think if making it intended would change balance too much.
              Last edited by Eric37073; 02-07-2013, 03:14 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                yes it should be fully removed, dark pact has enough bugs already and Napalm is strong enough - make it intended change
                Last edited by Metall-Drago; 02-07-2013, 03:11 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  This looks like W3 Dota bug.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Napalm isn't strong at all, if anything revert it back to not being removed on dark pact/krakenshell still would be a better "intended" fix as this (only slow being temporarly not removed instead of the entire debuff gone) ... or you know, just let 'em fix it and stop complaining with all this "hero xy is underpowered make it an inteded fix" -> for balance discusions go to playdota.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Metall-Drago View Post
                      yes it should be fully removed, dark pact has enough bugs already and Napalm is strong enough - make it intended change

                      I hate when this happens...

                      No, I insist. The full W3 DotA behaviour has to be replicated. Purges, generally, remove the slows only most of the time anyway. Many other skill effects tend to remain.
                      Removing only the movement speed slow for a single instance seems a little weird, I admit.
                      A good and compromisable intended change would be to:

                      Remove the movement speed slow AND the turn rate slow for ONLY temporarily once again. If the Sticky Napalm gets re-applied within the time limit, it should continue from where it was. Not from the very beginning.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I would like to insist on spectral dagger behavior of DotA because it currently sucks HERE.
                        sigpic <-- My work is done, if this gets implemented
                        Also: つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Give Soloqueue!
                        Need some incentive to start a match of dota?
                        http://getdotastats.com/sig/87346642.png
                        Originally posted by DarkLite
                        Valve has abandoned the game! The game is now safe to leave.
                        No statistics will be recorded.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yeah, do that. I would appreciate that. I also would like to see that happen, but this is not the place for it. Wrong thread, wrong section...
                          Currently this is a Test Client critical issue, that's why I brought this one here.

                          Skills should be as potent as they were in W3 DotA, not less, not much... At least, not too less and not too much.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ThoAppelsin View Post
                            At least, not too less and not too much.
                            +1

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              btw what about viper 1st, purges and ensnares? they are removed in d1 by pact i think, but not in D2 (i know that mana leak, axe hunger and veno 2nd are intended not to be removed)

                              Comment

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