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[Confirmed] Sticky Napalm + Damage Amplification

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  • [Confirmed] Sticky Napalm + Damage Amplification

    Basically, if Batrider attacks someone with e.g. soul catcher and sticky napalm, the extra damage from soul catcher counts as a seperate damage instance for batrider and triggers sticky napalm again.
    This means with a lvl 1 soul catcher (20% extra dmg) you only get 120% dmg on your hit, but 240% on the napalm.

    Combat Log Example:
    (batrider hits templar assassin with 10 napalms and soul catcher lvl 1)
    [23:08.84] Batrider hits Templar Assassin for 61 damage (1160->1099).
    [23:08.84] Batrider hits Templar Assassin for 12 damage (1099->1087). <-----------soul catcher amplification counts as seperate damage instance from batrider
    [23:08.84] Batrider hits Templar Assassin with Sticky Napalm for 187 damage (1086->899).
    [23:08.84] Batrider hits Templar Assassin with Sticky Napalm for 37 damage (899->862).
    [23:08.84] Batrider hits Templar Assassin with Sticky Napalm for 187 damage (861->674). <------- !?
    [23:08.84] Batrider hits Templar Assassin with Sticky Napalm for 37 damage (674->637). <------- !?

    I am not sure how this is handled in dota 1 and if this is intended, but it seems horribly wrong!?

    Extra Example with 2 Damage Amplifications:
    [35:24.81] Templar Assassin receives Sticky Napalm debuff from Batrider. (10 times)
    [35:30.13] Templar Assassin receives Penitence debuff from Chen. (lvl 4, 32%)
    [35:32.54] Templar Assassin receives Soul Catcher debuff from Shadow Demon. (lvl 4, 50%)
    [35:34.08] Batrider hits Templar Assassin for 62 damage (1322->1260).
    [35:34.08] Batrider hits Templar Assassin for 31 damage (1260->1229).
    [35:34.08] Batrider hits Templar Assassin with Sticky Napalm for 187 damage (1228->1041).
    [35:34.08] Batrider hits Templar Assassin with Sticky Napalm for 93 damage (1041->948).
    [35:34.08] Batrider hits Templar Assassin with Sticky Napalm for 33 damage (947->914).
    [35:34.08] Batrider hits Templar Assassin for 11 damage (914->903).
    [35:34.08] Batrider hits Templar Assassin with Sticky Napalm for 187 damage (902->715).
    [35:34.08] Batrider hits Templar Assassin with Sticky Napalm for 93 damage (715->622).
    [35:34.08] Batrider hits Templar Assassin with Sticky Napalm for 33 damage (621->588).
    [35:34.08] Batrider hits Templar Assassin with Sticky Napalm for 187 damage (588->401).
    [35:34.08] Batrider hits Templar Assassin with Sticky Napalm for 93 damage (400->307).
    [35:34.08] Batrider hits Templar Assassin with Sticky Napalm for 33 damage (306->273).

    so essentially a 62 damage hit with 10 sticky napalm charges, which should be 494 damage ((62 + 25*10*0,75)*1,5*1,32) (25% magic resistance) does 1049 damage total, which is more than double the intended damage?

    thoughts?

  • #2
    Well first up there's a bug with it not checking the amount of damage done: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=74646 so if less than 34 damage is done in one instance it shouldn't trigger sticky napalm. I am not 100% sure whether or not that is relevant, and cannot test right now either.

    Nice find anyway and I would be curious to understand why this happens too.
    Comprehensive Damage Reduction & Amplifications Dota 2 Guide

    Comment


    • #3
      If your bug gets fixed, it might happen to prevent some of the occurances of this issue, but not the issue itself. Especially Flamebreak will still trigger this because it deals enough damage.

      Comment


      • #4
        Confirmed as too much dmg.
        dota1 with only soul catcher&napalm as expected deals 4 instances of dmg. (vid here not embedded as less interesting)
        dota1 with soul catcher/penitence/napalm deals 10 instance of dmg:



        legend:
        Code:
        dota1:
        67,00 -> normal hit
        21,44   -> penitence
        10,72       -> soul catcher
        33,50   -> soul catcher
        10,72      -> penitence
        25,00 -> napalm 
         8,00    -> penitence
         4,00       -> soul catcher
        12,50    -> soul catcher 
         4,00      -> penitence
        dota2 as You can see launches whole "bonus dmg chain" for each instance:

        Code:
        - normal dmg
          - napalm
             - soul
             - penitence
        - soul catcher
          - napalm
             - soul
             - penitence
        - penitence 
          - napalm
             - soul
             - penitence
        There are few things wrong here:
        1) It triggers napalm for other trigerred amplifications, while he should only for original.
        2) As reported before, in dota2 triggered amplifications are not triggering for other amplifications.

        And a sidenote, Your 494 is semi-wrongly calculated, because even if we ignore above issue (SC not trigger for PEN and vice versa), Penitence (0.32) is physical, thus reduced by armor.
        Judging by Your combat log TA is lvl 25 -> 13 armor -> penitence deals 0.32 * (1-0.44) -> 17,92% amp. (hence the 11 from 62 in Your combat log)

        So with only this(napalm) fix it would be like ~441 in dota2 I guess, and in dota1 it would be more like:

        Code:
        SC	0.5
        PEN	0,1792 // because 0.44 reduction from 13 armor
        
        	attack	napalm
        	62	187,5
        *SC	31	93,75
        *PEN	11,1104	33,6
        *SC*PEN	5,5552	16,8
        *PEN*SC	5,5552	16,8
        		
        	115,2208	348,45
        giving 463-465 (62 in combat log might be as well 62.9 real dmg), but that of course changes nothing for bug report.

        Anyway, it should be moved to main section and added to sticky.
        You gotta FIGHT!
        For Your RIGHT!
        To BUUUGFIX!

        Comment


        • #5
          I reposted it in the bug section with a clearer first post here: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=78996
          I think this thread can be closed, thanks adrianlegg for the clarification.

          Comment


          • #6
            Your dota 1 test is invalid, the damage from both soul catcher and penitence is not enough to trigger napalm....

            Comment


            • #7
              Damn.
              You're right, obviously. I totally forgot 45/34 (creeps/heroes) threshold.

              When using big enough dmg, napalm does proceed for each dmg instance.



              and it's:

              Code:
              400  dagon
              128  dagon -> pen
              64   dagon -> pen -> sc
              25   dagon -> pen -> sc -> napalm
              25   dagon -> pen -> napalm
              12,5 dagon -> pen -> napalm -> sc
              200  dagon -> sc
              64   dagon -> sc -> pen
              25   dagon -> sc -> pen -> napalm
              25   dagon -> sc -> napalm
              8    dagon -> sc -> napalm -> pen
              25   dagon -> napalm
              8    dagon -> napalm -> pen
              4    dagon -> napalm -> pen -> sc
              12,5 dagon -> napalm -> sc
              4    dagon -> napalm -> sc -> pen
              That makes my explanation of this thread totally wrong; it should deal for all other sources, just not for low dmg.

              It feels bad to be wrong :/

              Good that this has been corrected though.

              --

              To sum up:
              yes, in this case it shouldn't trigger additional napalm attacks, but that depends only on dmg threshold, which would be too low (31/11 less then 34 for heroes) not anything else.

              I'll pm some mod, may them change entry on KBL as they wish.
              Last edited by adrianlegg; 03-21-2013, 06:35 AM.
              You gotta FIGHT!
              For Your RIGHT!
              To BUUUGFIX!

              Comment


              • #8
                adrien, just for the peace of my mind, can you test one more time (both wc3 and dota2) with 10-stack Napalm and lv 4 Soul Catcher?
                Every time someone make a false report.
                Making people's losses feel worse with just my name (don't ask me how it work, I certainly don't)

                Currently observed Orb(Unique Attack Modifiers), Critical, and Bash interactions for DotA2

                To:
                People who cry MM isn't fair: Maybe you're not as great as you make yourself to be.
                People who wants surrender: It exists, but I'm not teaching you how to do it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Sure, but it works as expected ( 2 napalms, 5 instances of dmg ) http://youtu.be/-X1rbrCaPfY
                  You gotta FIGHT!
                  For Your RIGHT!
                  To BUUUGFIX!

                  Comment

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